MXR Products

[gitguy47]

good Morning, and thanks for your kind attention.

Having remoddeled my pedal board, I find I am getting tone sucking.. the
set up is a dual path to emulate cahannel switching with a fender delux
Reverb Reissue.



I will do my best to describe the path guitar > tuner > wah.... now we
split into two with the path of the Wah going into the A section of a
Whirlwind Selector #1 and terminating in the A section of Selector #2.
From selector #2 > direct to the amp

the second path leaves Selector #1 from the B port > Barber dostortion > a
BB+ (Xotic is the manuf.) > an MXR Micro Amp > to port B on Selecrtor # 2 >
and out over the same single line to the amp.

this gives me a clean Channel A with Wah when I want it... the effects on
another channel either or both going to a single output port on selector #2.

looking at the OD, Distgortion and Wah and tuner I know there is a DPDT in
each to provide as close to Tru-Bypass as we can attain.

the Whirlwind selector states they have tru bypass, but I can not verify how
they do it?
the MXR says it does not color or deteract from the tone but I can't prove
it..

So now my question: Having played around with the system, I can not
identify which components are doing the damage to the tone...
Might someone here be able to help direct me..

dan

[RichL]

Post by gitguy47
good Morning, and thanks for your kind attention.
Having remoddeled my pedal board, I find I am getting tone sucking..
the set up is a dual path to emulate cahannel switching with a fender
delux Reverb Reissue.
I will do my best to describe the path guitar > tuner > wah.... now
we split into two with the path of the Wah going into the A section
of a Whirlwind Selector #1 and terminating in the A section of
Selector #2. From selector #2 > direct to the amp
the second path leaves Selector #1 from the B port > Barber
dostortion > a BB+ (Xotic is the manuf.) > an MXR Micro Amp > to
port B on Selecrtor # 2 > and out over the same single line to the
amp.
this gives me a clean Channel A with Wah when I want it... the
effects on another channel either or both going to a single output
port on selector #2.
looking at the OD, Distgortion and Wah and tuner I know there is a
DPDT in each to provide as close to Tru-Bypass as we can attain.
the Whirlwind selector states they have tru bypass, but I can not
verify how they do it?
the MXR says it does not color or deteract from the tone but I can't
prove it..
So now my question: Having played around with the system, I can not
identify which components are doing the damage to the tone...
Might someone here be able to help direct me..
dan

My guess is too many true bypass pedals in a single chain. I think you'd be
helped by using a buffered pedal somewhere along the line, especially in the
B portion. Otherwise, you've got a lot of input/output jack capacitances,
cable capacitances, etc. cumulatively adding up and sucking tone.

Read Pete Cornish's article on the subject. You may not agree with
everything he says, but the guy knows his stuff.

http://www.petecornish.co.uk/case_against_true_bypass.html

[The Interceptor]

Post by gitguy47
good Morning, and thanks for your kind attention.
Having remoddeled my pedal board, I find I am getting tone sucking.. the
set up is a dual path to emulate cahannel switching with a fender delux
Reverb Reissue.
I will do my best to describe the path guitar > tuner > wah.... now we
split into two with the path of the Wah going into the A section of a
Whirlwind Selector #1 and terminating in the A section of Selector #2.
From selector #2 > direct to the amp
the second path leaves Selector #1 from the B port > Barber dostortion >
a BB+ (Xotic is the manuf.) > an MXR Micro Amp > to port B on Selecrtor #
2 > and out over the same single line to the amp.
this gives me a clean Channel A with Wah when I want it... the effects on
another channel either or both going to a single output port on selector #2.
looking at the OD, Distgortion and Wah and tuner I know there is a DPDT in
each to provide as close to Tru-Bypass as we can attain.
the Whirlwind selector states they have tru bypass, but I can not verify
how they do it?
the MXR says it does not color or deteract from the tone but I can't prove
it..
So now my question: Having played around with the system, I can not
identify which components are doing the damage to the tone...
Might someone here be able to help direct me..
dan

The true bypass/buffered pedal discussion is rather confusing, and extremes
on both sides of the argument are probably erroneous. I read a great
article on this in some UK guitar magazine (I'm in Australia btw) which
suggested that you need some buffering but not too much. In short, the
article recommended no more than 3 buffered pedals in the loop at one time.
I tried this out and built a bypass loop switch pedal to eliminate a couple
of buffered pedals from my loop. To my surprise it made a noticeable
difference, especially to my distorted tone.

So now I run 4 buffered pedals plus 2 true bypass pedals, with another two
buffered pedals that I can switch in with my home-made bypass loop pedal.
The bypass loop pedal can easily be tested on various pedals or groups of
pedals to see what works best. And you'll probably need a buffered pedal up
the front of your chain (if your tuner is a Boss it will be).

Finally, I'd be suspicious of the wah.

Brett

[underwood]

Post by The Interceptor
Finally, I'd be suspicious of the wah.

Hello,

the Crybaby is known for his tonesucking. Best way is to use it with a
Looper.

With lots of effects is best to use a buffered pedal as first effect
and a buffered pedal at end of the effect chain.

greets
Jürgen

[gitguy47]

Hi guys, I am gain much greater insight into the is. Read Pete's article
and yes it is a bit difficult to decipher for me as a Layman. and the
tuner is Boss so I am assuming that this means we do have a buffered pedal
in the chain and yes, that pedal is first. the Wah isn't doing much if any
damage to the tone.. and does go separate to the amp via one selector path.
the other chain begins and ends with s two to one selector > distortion > OD

mxr micro amp > to a second selector using two in to one out.

d

Post by gitguy47
good Morning, and thanks for your kind attention.
Having remoddeled my pedal board, I find I am getting tone sucking..
the set up is a dual path to emulate cahannel switching with a fender
delux Reverb Reissue.
I will do my best to describe the path guitar > tuner > wah.... now we
split into two with the path of the Wah going into the A section of a
Whirlwind Selector #1 and terminating in the A section of Selector #2.
From selector #2 > direct to the amp
the second path leaves Selector #1 from the B port > Barber dostortion >
a BB+ (Xotic is the manuf.) > an MXR Micro Amp > to port B on Selecrtor #
2 > and out over the same single line to the amp.
this gives me a clean Channel A with Wah when I want it... the effects
on another channel either or both going to a single output port on
selector #2.
looking at the OD, Distgortion and Wah and tuner I know there is a DPDT
in each to provide as close to Tru-Bypass as we can attain.
the Whirlwind selector states they have tru bypass, but I can not verify
how they do it?
the MXR says it does not color or deteract from the tone but I can't
prove it..
So now my question: Having played around with the system, I can not
identify which components are doing the damage to the tone...
Might someone here be able to help direct me..
dan

The true bypass/buffered pedal discussion is rather confusing, and
extremes on both sides of the argument are probably erroneous. I read a
great article on this in some UK guitar magazine (I'm in Australia btw)
which suggested that you need some buffering but not too much. In short,
the article recommended no more than 3 buffered pedals in the loop at one
time. I tried this out and built a bypass loop switch pedal to eliminate a
couple of buffered pedals from my loop. To my surprise it made a
noticeable difference, especially to my distorted tone.
So now I run 4 buffered pedals plus 2 true bypass pedals, with another two
buffered pedals that I can switch in with my home-made bypass loop pedal.
The bypass loop pedal can easily be tested on various pedals or groups of
pedals to see what works best. And you'll probably need a buffered pedal
up the front of your chain (if your tuner is a Boss it will be).
Finally, I'd be suspicious of the wah.
Brett

[underwood]

Hi guys, I am gain much greater insight into the is.  Read Pete's article
and yes it is a bit difficult to decipher for me as a Layman.   and the
tuner is Boss so I am assuming that this means we do have a buffered pedal
in the chain and yes, that pedal is first.   the Wah isn't doing much if any
damage to the tone.. and does go separate to the amp via one selector path.
the other chain begins and ends with s two to one selector > distortion > OD
 > mxr micro amp > to a second selector using two in to one out.

What about some pictures and a sketch of your setup. English is not my
motherlanguage so I have some problems to understand your description
of your setup.

Btw.: The Boss tuner has a buffer but maby it can't drive the
capacitive load of the following cables, connectors and devices. Take
a look here: http://www.muzique.com/lab/superbuff.htm

greets
Jürgen
underwoodblog.blogspot.com

[gitguy47]

thanks all for your help. I am thinking I need to look into a buffer or buffering. although the chain only contains a Wah > Distortion>OD> MXR Micr Amp, there is a splitter both in front and back of the chain. there is a definite volume and tonal difference when I remove the Whirlwind Selectors from the chain or when added... I do not know why and I am told by the manufacturer that the optical technology of the switches should not effect tone or volume.. however they are wrong.



for those interested, here is a simplistic view of my effects chain:


/<<<< /A <-------------------------------------------------<A\

AMP Whirlwind Selector Whirlwind Selector<<< WAH<<< Boss Tuner<<< Guitar( single coil Strat)

\<<<< \B < Micro Amp< OD BB+<Barber OD, <B/

Post by underwood

Post by gitguy47
Hi guys, I am gain much greater insight into the is. Read Pete's article
and yes it is a bit difficult to decipher for me as a Layman. and the
tuner is Boss so I am assuming that this means we do have a buffered pedal
in the chain and yes, that pedal is first. the Wah isn't doing much if any
damage to the tone.. and does go separate to the amp via one selector path.
the other chain begins and ends with s two to one selector > distortion > OD

mxr micro amp > to a second selector using two in to one out.

What about some pictures and a sketch of your setup. English is not my
motherlanguage so I have some problems to understand your description
of your setup.
Btw.: The Boss tuner has a buffer but maby it can't drive the
capacitive load of the following cables, connectors and devices. Take
a look here: http://www.muzique.com/lab/superbuff.htm
greets
Jürgen
underwoodblog.blogspot.com

[underwood]

thanks all for your help.  I am thinking I need to look into a buffer or buffering.  although the chain only contains a Wah > Distortion>OD> MXR Micr Amp, there is a splitter both in front and back of the chain.  there is a definite volume and tonal difference when I remove the Whirlwind Selectors from the chain or when added...  I do not know why and I am told by the manufacturer that the optical technology of the switches should not effect tone or volume..  however they are wrong.
          /<<<<    /A    <-------------------------------------------------<A\
AMP            Whirlwind Selector                                     Whirlwind Selector<<< WAH<<<  Boss Tuner<<< Guitar( single coil Strat)
          \<<<<    \B  < Micro Amp< OD BB+<Barber OD,    <B/        

I've never heard of an "optical selector" or of "otpical technology".
Only when used with S/P-DIF Signals and this is not the case. Maby you
could make a gut shot of the Whirlwind Selector.

After I've read the technical data of the Whirlwind I think this
selector is the problem. It has a very high output impendance (1M
Ohm). This is higher than some guitar pickups. Normaly a buffered or
engaged pedal has an output impendance of 10k Ohm (0,01M Ohm). Best
way is to replace the Whirlwinds by some Lehle Selectors. Lehle works
with relais and not this magical "optical" wonder thingy.

You could also add some buffers after the outputs of the Whirlwind.

greets
Jürgen
underwoodblog.blogspot.com

[gitguy47]

Thanks, but I am thinking of going the old fashion way. My original plan was
to eliminate as much noise in the chain(so) as possible by routing in two
different paths.. however, I do not care for the current setup and I guess
some lucky dog will find two new Selectors on EBay..

FENDER DDRI \<<<< < Micro Amp< OD BB+<Barber distortion <<<
WAH<<< Boss Tuner<<< Guitar( single coil Strat)

Danny

Post by underwood

Post by gitguy47
thanks all for your help. I am thinking I need to look into a buffer or
buffering. although the chain only contains a Wah > Distortion>OD> MXR
Micr Amp, there is a splitter both in front and back of the chain. there
is a definite volume and tonal difference when I remove the Whirlwind
Selectors from the chain or when added... I do not know why and I am
told by the manufacturer that the optical technology of the switches
should not effect tone or volume.. however they are wrong.
/<<<< /A
<-------------------------------------------------<A\
AMP Whirlwind Selector
Whirlwind Selector<<< WAH<<< Boss Tuner<<< Guitar( single coil Strat)
\<<<< \B < Micro Amp< OD BB+<Barber OD, <B/

I've never heard of an "optical selector" or of "otpical technology".
Only when used with S/P-DIF Signals and this is not the case. Maby you
could make a gut shot of the Whirlwind Selector.
After I've read the technical data of the Whirlwind I think this
selector is the problem. It has a very high output impendance (1M
Ohm). This is higher than some guitar pickups. Normaly a buffered or
engaged pedal has an output impendance of 10k Ohm (0,01M Ohm). Best
way is to replace the Whirlwinds by some Lehle Selectors. Lehle works
with relais and not this magical "optical" wonder thingy.
You could also add some buffers after the outputs of the Whirlwind.
greets
Jürgen
underwoodblog.blogspot.com