Discussion:
Original ProCo Rat vs. Turbo Rat
(too old to reply)
x01001x
2008-10-18 10:19:53 UTC
Permalink
What is the difference under the hood between these two pedals?
Did the original Rat come out before 1980?

Are there any aftermarket mods for these pedals?

Thank you!
underwoodblog
2008-10-19 10:56:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by x01001x
What is the difference under the hood between these two pedals?
Did the original Rat come out before 1980?
Are there any aftermarket mods for these pedals?
Thank you!
Hi!

The main difference between the normal RAT and Turbo Rat are the
clipping diodes. The normal rat uses 1n4148 or simalar (0,7V) and the
turbo rat uses LEDs (2,2V forward voltage).

This means that the turbo rat has a higher output and less compression
than the normal rat. The double rat has also an option to switch to
germanium diodes for a fuzzier sound aka dirty rat (0,3V) and to
switch the clipping diodes completly off for a more clean boost.

Older models uses the lm383 op, first models in a round metal can
housing, later in 8pin dip housing. New models uses cheaper LMxxx or
BurrBrown op. Also the old pedals use the now called Millennium bypass
that uses a normal cheap switch to get a full bypass. See picture:
http://filters.muziq.be/model/proco/rat

There are some simple mods and you can build in a switch to change
between turbo and normal rat. Build in the classic LM383 or other OP
(socket!).

Thats the technical part. I think that the rat only works for few
setups. Strat and marshall amp at high volumes for example. I have
tryed different mods on the rat, build a new one strict to the classic
rat schematics and can't find out why this pedal schould be something
special. I have had several cheap distortion pedals that all sound
better than the rat. Maby it's the same hype like the klon pedal or
tubescreamer that I can't understand.

greets
Jürgen
Zoot
2008-10-20 17:19:28 UTC
Permalink
<snip>
Post by underwoodblog
Thats the technical part. I think that the rat only works for few
setups. Strat and marshall amp at high volumes for example. I have
tryed different mods on the rat, build a new one strict to the classic
rat schematics and can't find out why this pedal schould be something
special. I have had several cheap distortion pedals that all sound
better than the rat. Maby it's the same hype like the klon pedal or
tubescreamer that I can't understand.
greets
Jürgen
It has to do with some people liking vanilla ice cream, and others liking
strawberry. I have about 25 pedals, and out of all of them the Rat is my
favorite. I just like it.
Jim
2008-10-23 01:41:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by Zoot
<snip>
Post by underwoodblog
Thats the technical part. I think that the rat only works for few
setups. Strat and marshall amp at high volumes for example. I have
tryed different mods on the rat, build a new one strict to the classic
rat schematics and can't find out why this pedal schould be something
special. I have had several cheap distortion pedals that all sound
better than the rat. Maby it's the same hype like the klon pedal or
tubescreamer that I can't understand.
greets
Jürgen
It has to do with some people liking vanilla ice cream, and others liking
strawberry. I have about 25 pedals, and out of all of them the Rat is my
favorite. I just like it.
Into what amp? Not clean SS, I'm betting.
Zoot
2008-10-23 16:42:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jim
Post by Zoot
<snip>
Post by underwoodblog
Thats the technical part. I think that the rat only works for few
setups. Strat and marshall amp at high volumes for example. I have
tryed different mods on the rat, build a new one strict to the classic
rat schematics and can't find out why this pedal schould be something
special. I have had several cheap distortion pedals that all sound
better than the rat. Maby it's the same hype like the klon pedal or
tubescreamer that I can't understand.
greets
Jürgen
It has to do with some people liking vanilla ice cream, and others liking
strawberry. I have about 25 pedals, and out of all of them the Rat is my
favorite. I just like it.
Into what amp? Not clean SS, I'm betting.
I usually use an old Randall SS amp into a couple of Jaguar 12 inch
speakers. The amp has it's own distortion built in. It's usuable, a bit
harsh, but not very versatile. So, yes, a clean SS amp :). I sometimes us a
SS 30W amp I built about 10 years ago. I usually have one amp driving one
speaker and the other amp driving the other so I get stereo effects - my
flanger and chorus pedals have true stereo out, and the stereo effect from
the Chorus is quite nice.
TheChris
2008-11-17 15:52:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by Zoot
<snip>
Post by underwoodblog
Thats the technical part. I think that the rat only works for few
setups. Strat and marshall amp at high volumes for example. I have
tryed different mods on the rat, build a new one strict to the classic
rat schematics and can't find out why this pedal schould be something
special. I have had several cheap distortion pedals that all sound
better than the rat. Maby it's the same hype like the klon pedal or
tubescreamer that I can't understand.
greets
Jürgen
It has to do with some people liking vanilla ice cream, and others liking
strawberry. I have about 25 pedals, and out of all of them the Rat is my
favorite. I just like it.
I used a Rat into the Hi-Gain input on my Marshall for years... Greatest
sound ever, but, was such a hot signal, any other pedals I used (Chorus,
Flange, Phase) were too noisy. And, I couldn't get a good clean with the
pedal off into that input.

As soon as I switched to the low-gain input - I found it was like most
other amps... My other pedals sounded good, but, the Rat's distortion was
useless... It was barely a distortion anymore - it was like a fuzzy boost.

So, now it sits in a box.

I'd LOVE to mod that thing to being slightly more gainey...
Zoot
2008-11-17 17:28:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by TheChris
Post by Zoot
<snip>
Post by underwoodblog
Thats the technical part. I think that the rat only works for few
setups. Strat and marshall amp at high volumes for example. I have
tryed different mods on the rat, build a new one strict to the classic
rat schematics and can't find out why this pedal schould be something
special. I have had several cheap distortion pedals that all sound
better than the rat. Maby it's the same hype like the klon pedal or
tubescreamer that I can't understand.
greets
Jürgen
It has to do with some people liking vanilla ice cream, and others liking
strawberry. I have about 25 pedals, and out of all of them the Rat is my
favorite. I just like it.
I used a Rat into the Hi-Gain input on my Marshall for years... Greatest
sound ever, but, was such a hot signal, any other pedals I used (Chorus,
Flange, Phase) were too noisy. And, I couldn't get a good clean with the
pedal off into that input.
As soon as I switched to the low-gain input - I found it was like most
other amps... My other pedals sounded good, but, the Rat's distortion was
useless... It was barely a distortion anymore - it was like a fuzzy boost.
So, now it sits in a box.
I'd LOVE to mod that thing to being slightly more gainey...
Do you have a Turbo Rat? I have a Rat II, and I've used a Vintage Rat, and
both of them had output comparable to my other pedals. Both of those pedals
have output level adjustment that seem to be within the "normal" range of
output.

I will admit that I've not used them like you do - the last pedal in my
chain is always my DOD chorus - it puts out very nice true stereo, and I
sometimes run it into two amps. When I use run amp, it's still the last
pedal in the chain
TheChris
2008-11-17 18:21:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by Zoot
Post by TheChris
Post by Zoot
<snip>
Post by underwoodblog
Thats the technical part. I think that the rat only works for few
setups. Strat and marshall amp at high volumes for example. I have
tryed different mods on the rat, build a new one strict to the classic
rat schematics and can't find out why this pedal schould be something
special. I have had several cheap distortion pedals that all sound
better than the rat. Maby it's the same hype like the klon pedal or
tubescreamer that I can't understand.
greets
Jürgen
It has to do with some people liking vanilla ice cream, and others liking
strawberry. I have about 25 pedals, and out of all of them the Rat is my
favorite. I just like it.
I used a Rat into the Hi-Gain input on my Marshall for years... Greatest
sound ever, but, was such a hot signal, any other pedals I used (Chorus,
Flange, Phase) were too noisy. And, I couldn't get a good clean with the
pedal off into that input.
As soon as I switched to the low-gain input - I found it was like most
other amps... My other pedals sounded good, but, the Rat's distortion was
useless... It was barely a distortion anymore - it was like a fuzzy boost.
So, now it sits in a box.
I'd LOVE to mod that thing to being slightly more gainey...
Do you have a Turbo Rat? I have a Rat II, and I've used a Vintage Rat, and
both of them had output comparable to my other pedals. Both of those pedals
have output level adjustment that seem to be within the "normal" range of
output.
I will admit that I've not used them like you do - the last pedal in my
chain is always my DOD chorus - it puts out very nice true stereo, and I
sometimes run it into two amps. When I use run amp, it's still the last
pedal in the chain
No, it's an original ProCo Rat that I got in 1987...Chorus last? Hmmm... I
have my delay last if I want to do that. I like Chorus before distortion
for some reason...sounds more Leslie-Like... Use a Small Clone for that...
Wonderful!

But, I use a Boss Overdrive these days...It's more of a distortion though.
Zoot
2008-11-17 18:31:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by Zoot
Post by Zoot
Post by TheChris
Post by Zoot
<snip>
Post by underwoodblog
Thats the technical part. I think that the rat only works for few
setups. Strat and marshall amp at high volumes for example. I have
tryed different mods on the rat, build a new one strict to the classic
rat schematics and can't find out why this pedal schould be something
special. I have had several cheap distortion pedals that all sound
better than the rat. Maby it's the same hype like the klon pedal or
tubescreamer that I can't understand.
greets
Jürgen
It has to do with some people liking vanilla ice cream, and others
liking
Post by Zoot
Post by TheChris
Post by Zoot
strawberry. I have about 25 pedals, and out of all of them the Rat is
my
Post by Zoot
Post by TheChris
Post by Zoot
favorite. I just like it.
I used a Rat into the Hi-Gain input on my Marshall for years... Greatest
sound ever, but, was such a hot signal, any other pedals I used (Chorus,
Flange, Phase) were too noisy. And, I couldn't get a good clean with the
pedal off into that input.
As soon as I switched to the low-gain input - I found it was like most
other amps... My other pedals sounded good, but, the Rat's distortion
was
Post by Zoot
Post by TheChris
useless... It was barely a distortion anymore - it was like a fuzzy
boost.
Post by Zoot
Post by TheChris
So, now it sits in a box.
I'd LOVE to mod that thing to being slightly more gainey...
Do you have a Turbo Rat? I have a Rat II, and I've used a Vintage Rat,
and
Post by Zoot
both of them had output comparable to my other pedals. Both of those
pedals
Post by Zoot
have output level adjustment that seem to be within the "normal" range of
output.
I will admit that I've not used them like you do - the last pedal in my
chain is always my DOD chorus - it puts out very nice true stereo, and I
sometimes run it into two amps. When I use run amp, it's still the last
pedal in the chain
No, it's an original ProCo Rat that I got in 1987...Chorus last? Hmmm... I
have my delay last if I want to do that. I like Chorus before distortion
for some reason...sounds more Leslie-Like... Use a Small Clone for that...
Wonderful!
But, I use a Boss Overdrive these days...It's more of a distortion though.
I always have the rat, phasor, flanger, chorus as the last four pedals, in
that order. The stereo output of the DOD chorus is very nice, and very well
distrubuted across both outputs. I used to have a "stereo" Cool Cat chorus
pedal, but Danelectro's idea of "stereo" was to have one clean channel out
and one dirty channel out. Bah....

Guitar -> Harmonic enhancer -> delay -> <distortion - whatever I feel like
at the time> -> Rat -> phasor -> flanger ->

chorus -> amps
j***@gmail.com
2015-05-08 14:51:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by underwoodblog
Post by x01001x
What is the difference under the hood between these two pedals?
Did the original Rat come out before 1980?
Are there any aftermarket mods for these pedals?
Thank you!
Hi!
The main difference between the normal RAT and Turbo Rat are the
clipping diodes. The normal rat uses 1n4148 or simalar (0,7V) and the
turbo rat uses LEDs (2,2V forward voltage).
This means that the turbo rat has a higher output and less compression
than the normal rat. The double rat has also an option to switch to
germanium diodes for a fuzzier sound aka dirty rat (0,3V) and to
switch the clipping diodes completly off for a more clean boost.
Older models uses the lm383 op, first models in a round metal can
housing, later in 8pin dip housing. New models uses cheaper LMxxx or
BurrBrown op. Also the old pedals use the now called Millennium bypass
http://filters.muziq.be/model/proco/rat
There are some simple mods and you can build in a switch to change
between turbo and normal rat. Build in the classic LM383 or other OP
(socket!).
Thats the technical part. I think that the rat only works for few
setups. Strat and marshall amp at high volumes for example. I have
tryed different mods on the rat, build a new one strict to the classic
rat schematics and can't find out why this pedal schould be something
special. I have had several cheap distortion pedals that all sound
better than the rat. Maby it's the same hype like the klon pedal or
tubescreamer that I can't understand.
greets
Jürgen
I thought the LM308 was the classic Rat IC used. It's a big part of the high frequency response of the circuit as the op amp has a really poor slew rate. I don't know where you're getting these other ICs particularly the Burr Brown, I seriously doubt they would ever use one of those due to the high cost and good performance. As far as Rat popularity it's such a versatile pedal all across it's gain range. It has a great tone into an overdriven Marshall which was all the rage back in the day so it gained a huge reputation. The Klon is all hype however lol.
Loading...