Discussion:
BOSS DD6 - Eruption EVH
(too old to reply)
Ryan Sheeler
2010-07-29 16:47:38 UTC
Permalink
Hey all,

I've been playing around with my BOSS DD6 trying to get the growl/
divebomb at the end of Eruption - but I haven't quite got it. I've
downloaded and tried a lot of settings that people have tried using a
DD3 and earlier Boss units, but I haven't been able to duplicate that
sound with my DD6. Can anyone help? Thanks, Ry
New B.
2010-07-29 23:47:50 UTC
Permalink
On Thu, 29 Jul 2010 09:47:38 -0700 (PDT), Ryan Sheeler
Post by Ryan Sheeler
Hey all,
I've been playing around with my BOSS DD6 trying to get the growl/
divebomb at the end of Eruption - but I haven't quite got it. I've
downloaded and tried a lot of settings that people have tried using a
DD3 and earlier Boss units, but I haven't been able to duplicate that
sound with my DD6. Can anyone help? Thanks, Ry
You need to start with an old Marshall.

Check out: http://www.marshallforum.com

Do a search.
TheChris
2010-07-30 03:12:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by New B.
On Thu, 29 Jul 2010 09:47:38 -0700 (PDT), Ryan Sheeler
Post by Ryan Sheeler
Hey all,
I've been playing around with my BOSS DD6 trying to get the growl/
divebomb at the end of Eruption - but I haven't quite got it. I've
downloaded and tried a lot of settings that people have tried using a
DD3 and earlier Boss units, but I haven't been able to duplicate that
sound with my DD6. Can anyone help? Thanks, Ry
You need to start with an old Marshall.
Check out: http://www.marshallforum.com
Do a search.
WEll, that won't get the delay sounds... I don't know if he used an
Echoplex there (a VERY distinctive sound) or relied on a high-end studio
delay...

Eddies delay sounds are pretty heavily documented... He wasn't using great
stuff - that's what made him so cool.

Remember, he used a Variac too... Are you trying to get his guitar sound,
or the delay repeats?? Getting his guitar sound is like trying to find the
fountain of youth....
New B.
2010-07-30 12:29:44 UTC
Permalink
On Fri, 30 Jul 2010 03:12:54 +0000 (UTC), TheChris
Post by TheChris
Post by New B.
On Thu, 29 Jul 2010 09:47:38 -0700 (PDT), Ryan Sheeler
Post by Ryan Sheeler
Hey all,
I've been playing around with my BOSS DD6 trying to get the growl/
divebomb at the end of Eruption - but I haven't quite got it. I've
downloaded and tried a lot of settings that people have tried using a
DD3 and earlier Boss units, but I haven't been able to duplicate that
sound with my DD6. Can anyone help? Thanks, Ry
You need to start with an old Marshall.
Check out: http://www.marshallforum.com
Do a search.
WEll, that won't get the delay sounds... I don't know if he used an
Echoplex there (a VERY distinctive sound) or relied on a high-end studio
delay...
Eddies delay sounds are pretty heavily documented... He wasn't using great
stuff - that's what made him so cool.
Remember, he used a Variac too... Are you trying to get his guitar sound,
or the delay repeats?? Getting his guitar sound is like trying to find the
fountain of youth....
Some say EVH used a variac some say he didn't.
The truth may never be known.

There are articles that report that he used
an MXR phaser as the first pedal in the fx chain.
Ryan Sheeler
2010-07-30 19:02:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by New B.
On Fri, 30 Jul 2010 03:12:54 +0000 (UTC), TheChris
Post by TheChris
Post by New B.
On Thu, 29 Jul 2010 09:47:38 -0700 (PDT), Ryan Sheeler
Post by Ryan Sheeler
Hey all,
I've been playing around with my BOSS DD6 trying to get the growl/
divebomb at the end of Eruption - but I haven't quite got it.   I've
downloaded and tried a lot of settings that people have tried using a
DD3 and earlier Boss units, but I haven't been able to duplicate that
sound with my DD6.   Can anyone help?   Thanks, Ry
You need to start with an old Marshall.
Check out:  http://www.marshallforum.com
Do a search.
WEll, that won't get the delay sounds... I don't know if he used an
Echoplex there (a VERY distinctive sound) or relied on a high-end studio
delay...
Eddies delay sounds are pretty heavily documented... He wasn't using great
stuff - that's what made him so cool.  
Remember, he used a Variac too... Are you trying to get his guitar sound,
or the delay repeats?? Getting his guitar sound is like trying to find the
fountain of youth....
Some say EVH used a variac some say he didn't.
The truth may never be known.
There are articles that report that he used
an MXR phaser as the first pedal in the fx chain.- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
I'm looking to recreate the "divebomb" at the end of Eruption. EVH
does it with a Univox tape echo. I saw Curt Mitchell do it with a
Boss DD3 (I think) and he nailed it exactly like the Univox. So if
he did it with an earlier Boss delay pedal, surely I can do it with my
DD6??
New B.
2010-07-30 20:17:31 UTC
Permalink
On Fri, 30 Jul 2010 12:02:22 -0700 (PDT), Ryan Sheeler
Post by Ryan Sheeler
I'm looking to recreate the "divebomb" at the end of Eruption. EVH
does it with a Univox tape echo. I saw Curt Mitchell do it with a
Boss DD3 (I think) and he nailed it exactly like the Univox. So if
he did it with an earlier Boss delay pedal, surely I can do it with my
DD6??
Sorry, can't help.
Rufus
2010-07-31 01:13:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ryan Sheeler
Post by New B.
On Fri, 30 Jul 2010 03:12:54 +0000 (UTC), TheChris
- Show quoted text -
I'm looking to recreate the "divebomb" at the end of Eruption. EVH
does it with a Univox tape echo. I saw Curt Mitchell do it with a
Boss DD3 (I think) and he nailed it exactly like the Univox. So if
he did it with an earlier Boss delay pedal, surely I can do it with my
DD6??
First thing - listen to the record...his trem floats, and his guitar is
tuned down a half step, so the dive actually ends up on an open Eb; he
pulls sharp and lets the trem relax back to the open note - and EVH
"signature" trick. If you have your trem set against the body of the
guitar so it will only dive (like I do) you won't be able to do it with
that guitar.

I should think your DD-6 would work fine for the echo; I own a DD-6
myself, but I also own a TTE tape echo and have used an EP-4 Echoplex.
About the only thing using a genuine tape echo gives you is the ability
to create "zipper noise" by moving the delay slider - but that's not
what's going on here. It's just a nice easy echo over some
phase/flange/feedback and playing technique.
--
- Rufus
Ryan Sheeler
2010-07-31 01:36:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rufus
Post by New B.
On Fri, 30 Jul 2010 03:12:54 +0000 (UTC), TheChris
- Show quoted text -
I'm looking to recreate the "divebomb" at the end of Eruption.   EVH
does it with a Univox tape echo.  I saw Curt Mitchell do it with a
Boss DD3 (I think) and he nailed it exactly like the Univox.     So if
he did it with an earlier Boss delay pedal, surely I can do it with my
DD6??
First thing - listen to the record...his trem floats, and his guitar is
tuned down a half step, so the dive actually ends up on an open Eb; he
pulls sharp and lets the trem relax back to the open note - and EVH
"signature" trick.  If you have your trem set against the body of the
guitar so it will only dive (like I do) you won't be able to do it with
that guitar.
I should think your DD-6 would work fine for the echo; I own a DD-6
myself, but I also own a TTE tape echo and have used an EP-4 Echoplex.
About the only thing using a genuine tape echo gives you is the ability
to create "zipper noise" by moving the delay slider - but that's not
what's going on here.  It's just a nice easy echo over some
phase/flange/feedback and playing technique.
--
      - Rufus
The very end of Eruption is not a divebomb with the wang bar. You
physically can't make a whammy bar dive that low. EVH said so in
interviews - its a a Univox tape echo (that EVH housed later in a WWII
practice bomb -- this is well-documented in several pics from the
era.)

Loading Image...

http://www.guitarattack.com/mattocaster/vanhalen/sagavh4.htm



Curt Mitchell in his EVH instructional DVD replicates the effect.
Where you hit the 12th fret harmonic, kick on the delay (or echo)
which takes over the note, and then you physically take the rate knob
on your delay and turn it all the way down gradually. It sounds
like a whammy bar but is not. :) Curt does it with a BOSS DD1 or
DD3. I have a DD6 and that's what I was wondering how to do.
RichL
2010-07-31 15:29:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ryan Sheeler
The very end of Eruption is not a divebomb with the wang bar. You
physically can't make a whammy bar dive that low.
The end of Eruption may not be a divebomb, but you certainly *CAN* make a
whammy bar dive that low. I have two guitars with whammies that'll make the
strings go completely slack: a Kahler on my old Ric 450, and a custom
whammy on my Brian May replica guitar. Brian himself does this on a handful
of Queen songs.
Ryan Sheeler
2010-07-31 16:04:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by RichL
The very end of Eruption  is not a divebomb with the wang bar.   You
physically can't make a whammy bar dive that low.
The end of Eruption may not be a divebomb, but you certainly *CAN* make a
whammy bar dive that low.  I have two guitars with whammies that'll make the
strings go completely slack:  a Kahler on my old Ric 450, and a custom
whammy on my Brian May replica guitar.  Brian himself does this on a handful
of Queen songs.
It's not just a matter of making the dive that low. If you listen
carefully as the last note in Eruption fades out, it sustains that
lowest note at the end of the dive, and there's a lot of residual
growl (the motor from the Univox he uses) in the background
Rufus
2010-07-31 18:45:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ryan Sheeler
Post by RichL
Post by Ryan Sheeler
The very end of Eruption is not a divebomb with the wang bar. You
physically can't make a whammy bar dive that low.
The end of Eruption may not be a divebomb, but you certainly *CAN* make a
whammy bar dive that low. I have two guitars with whammies that'll make the
strings go completely slack: a Kahler on my old Ric 450, and a custom
whammy on my Brian May replica guitar. Brian himself does this on a handful
of Queen songs.
It's not just a matter of making the dive that low. If you listen
carefully as the last note in Eruption fades out, it sustains that
lowest note at the end of the dive, and there's a lot of residual
growl (the motor from the Univox he uses) in the background
...all I know is that when I tune my guitar down a half step and play to
the end of this -



- is that the last note is the note I get - open Eb. And yeah, I can
dive my Strat that low and lower in standard tuning (it helps to have
tour trem sprung stiff to be able to do it hat slow), but if you play
the end over and listen REAL close you'll hear that he very quickly
pulls sharp and slowly releases to that open Eb from a harmonic pluck,
tap, whatever - probably at the 12th fret, seeing as I can do it off an
open string.

Also - if you go searching for tabs, the ones I've found show to tune
down a half-step. If you're not tuned down, that's probably a lot of
what you're missing.
--
- Rufus
Jim
2010-07-30 19:07:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by New B.
On Fri, 30 Jul 2010 03:12:54 +0000 (UTC), TheChris
Post by TheChris
Post by New B.
On Thu, 29 Jul 2010 09:47:38 -0700 (PDT), Ryan Sheeler
Post by Ryan Sheeler
Hey all,
I've been playing around with my BOSS DD6 trying to get the growl/
divebomb at the end of Eruption - but I haven't quite got it. I've
downloaded and tried a lot of settings that people have tried using a
DD3 and earlier Boss units, but I haven't been able to duplicate that
sound with my DD6. Can anyone help? Thanks, Ry
You need to start with an old Marshall.
Check out: http://www.marshallforum.com
Do a search.
WEll, that won't get the delay sounds... I don't know if he used an
Echoplex there (a VERY distinctive sound) or relied on a high-end studio
delay...
Eddies delay sounds are pretty heavily documented... He wasn't using great
stuff - that's what made him so cool.
Remember, he used a Variac too... Are you trying to get his guitar sound,
or the delay repeats?? Getting his guitar sound is like trying to find the
fountain of youth....
Some say EVH used a variac some say he didn't.
The truth may never be known.
He most certainly did use a variac. HE even said that he did. Although
some of his comments about the use of a variac weren't accurate. Some
say that he intentionally misled people, others say he didn't have a
complete understanding of the voltage issue. (In one interview, he
talked about cranking UP the voltage and melting down tubes. In
reality, you'd almost certainly pop the B+ fuse. But amps CAN melt down
tubes: http://www.timeelect.com/6550a-ex.htm ).

I recall a reputable source stating that it was a Super Lead on a variac
at LOWER than line voltage, into a 20 ohm dummy load on the 8 ohm tap,
with Sylvania 6CA7. Simple voltage divider to lower the level, then
typically he did time based effects and harmonizer AFTER the Marshall,
then solid state power amp to boost level back up, then speakers.
Post by New B.
There are articles that report that he used
an MXR phaser as the first pedal in the fx chain.
I should say that I don't chase his tone. My info is strictly from a
tech curiosity. But I've read the same. I say "typically" above,
because sometimes he used time based effects before the amp.

But the basics are fairly well documented. Super Lead on variac at
lower voltages, Sylvania 6CA7...
New B.
2010-07-30 20:14:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jim
Post by New B.
On Fri, 30 Jul 2010 03:12:54 +0000 (UTC), TheChris
Post by TheChris
Post by New B.
On Thu, 29 Jul 2010 09:47:38 -0700 (PDT), Ryan Sheeler
Post by Ryan Sheeler
Hey all,
I've been playing around with my BOSS DD6 trying to get the growl/
divebomb at the end of Eruption - but I haven't quite got it. I've
downloaded and tried a lot of settings that people have tried using a
DD3 and earlier Boss units, but I haven't been able to duplicate that
sound with my DD6. Can anyone help? Thanks, Ry
You need to start with an old Marshall.
Check out: http://www.marshallforum.com
Do a search.
WEll, that won't get the delay sounds... I don't know if he used an
Echoplex there (a VERY distinctive sound) or relied on a high-end studio
delay...
Eddies delay sounds are pretty heavily documented... He wasn't using great
stuff - that's what made him so cool.
Remember, he used a Variac too... Are you trying to get his guitar sound,
or the delay repeats?? Getting his guitar sound is like trying to find the
fountain of youth....
Some say EVH used a variac some say he didn't.
The truth may never be known.
He most certainly did use a variac. HE even said that he did. Although
some of his comments about the use of a variac weren't accurate. Some
say that he intentionally misled people, others say he didn't have a
complete understanding of the voltage issue. (In one interview, he
talked about cranking UP the voltage and melting down tubes. In
reality, you'd almost certainly pop the B+ fuse. But amps CAN melt down
tubes: http://www.timeelect.com/6550a-ex.htm ).
I recall a reputable source stating that it was a Super Lead on a variac
at LOWER than line voltage, into a 20 ohm dummy load on the 8 ohm tap,
with Sylvania 6CA7. Simple voltage divider to lower the level, then
typically he did time based effects and harmonizer AFTER the Marshall,
then solid state power amp to boost level back up, then speakers.
Post by New B.
There are articles that report that he used
an MXR phaser as the first pedal in the fx chain.
I should say that I don't chase his tone. My info is strictly from a
tech curiosity. But I've read the same. I say "typically" above,
because sometimes he used time based effects before the amp.
But the basics are fairly well documented. Super Lead on variac at
lower voltages, Sylvania 6CA7...
I don't dispute what you have said/read but am saying that
others have said the opposite regarding the Variac.

Some say that EVH intentionally mislead during interviews.

I don't want to chase anybodies tone, prefer to persue my own.

Some say that the 6CA7 is the bomb.

To me it's gotta be the combination of
the valves, circuit, speakers, cab, and the players touch.

IOW you could put together the exact same rig and not sound
like Eddie. Marshalls are notorious fortheir 'variability' from
amp to amp of the same model.
New B.
2010-07-30 20:15:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by New B.
To me it's gotta be the combination of
the valves, circuit, speakers, cab, and the players touch.
Edit:

Wood, frets, strings, pickups, etc...
Jim
2010-07-31 02:47:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by New B.
Post by Jim
Post by New B.
On Fri, 30 Jul 2010 03:12:54 +0000 (UTC), TheChris
Post by TheChris
Post by New B.
On Thu, 29 Jul 2010 09:47:38 -0700 (PDT), Ryan Sheeler
Post by Ryan Sheeler
Hey all,
I've been playing around with my BOSS DD6 trying to get the growl/
divebomb at the end of Eruption - but I haven't quite got it. I've
downloaded and tried a lot of settings that people have tried using a
DD3 and earlier Boss units, but I haven't been able to duplicate that
sound with my DD6. Can anyone help? Thanks, Ry
You need to start with an old Marshall.
Check out: http://www.marshallforum.com
Do a search.
WEll, that won't get the delay sounds... I don't know if he used an
Echoplex there (a VERY distinctive sound) or relied on a high-end studio
delay...
Eddies delay sounds are pretty heavily documented... He wasn't using great
stuff - that's what made him so cool.
Remember, he used a Variac too... Are you trying to get his guitar sound,
or the delay repeats?? Getting his guitar sound is like trying to find the
fountain of youth....
Some say EVH used a variac some say he didn't.
The truth may never be known.
He most certainly did use a variac. HE even said that he did. Although
some of his comments about the use of a variac weren't accurate. Some
say that he intentionally misled people, others say he didn't have a
complete understanding of the voltage issue. (In one interview, he
talked about cranking UP the voltage and melting down tubes. In
reality, you'd almost certainly pop the B+ fuse. But amps CAN melt down
tubes: http://www.timeelect.com/6550a-ex.htm ).
I recall a reputable source stating that it was a Super Lead on a variac
at LOWER than line voltage, into a 20 ohm dummy load on the 8 ohm tap,
with Sylvania 6CA7. Simple voltage divider to lower the level, then
typically he did time based effects and harmonizer AFTER the Marshall,
then solid state power amp to boost level back up, then speakers.
Post by New B.
There are articles that report that he used
an MXR phaser as the first pedal in the fx chain.
I should say that I don't chase his tone. My info is strictly from a
tech curiosity. But I've read the same. I say "typically" above,
because sometimes he used time based effects before the amp.
But the basics are fairly well documented. Super Lead on variac at
lower voltages, Sylvania 6CA7...
I don't dispute what you have said/read but am saying that
others have said the opposite regarding the Variac.
His use of the variac is so well documented that I wasn't aware that it
was a real controversy.
Post by New B.
Some say that EVH intentionally mislead during interviews.
I don't want to chase anybodies tone, prefer to persue my own.
Some say that the 6CA7 is the bomb.
To me it's gotta be the combination of
the valves, circuit, speakers, cab, and the players touch.
IOW you could put together the exact same rig and not sound
like Eddie. Marshalls are notorious fortheir 'variability' from
amp to amp of the same model.
When the amps were newer, they were much more uniform. There was a 10%
tolerance on resistor values, 20% on some capacitors. But the
differences you hear today were often not there when the amp was built.

Resistor values often drift, especially carbon comp. Electrolytic
capacitors dry up, other types can become leaky. Tubes age, and get
replaced with different types.

But some of that "notorious variability" is no doubt people that don't
know that circuits changed at certain times, keeping the same model
number. It's painfully obvious fact that many guys don't even know that
there are different JCM 800 models. Let alone changes that happen
within a model.
New B.
2010-07-31 14:04:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jim
Post by New B.
Post by Jim
Post by New B.
On Fri, 30 Jul 2010 03:12:54 +0000 (UTC), TheChris
Post by TheChris
Post by New B.
On Thu, 29 Jul 2010 09:47:38 -0700 (PDT), Ryan Sheeler
Post by Ryan Sheeler
Hey all,
I've been playing around with my BOSS DD6 trying to get the growl/
divebomb at the end of Eruption - but I haven't quite got it. I've
downloaded and tried a lot of settings that people have tried using a
DD3 and earlier Boss units, but I haven't been able to duplicate that
sound with my DD6. Can anyone help? Thanks, Ry
You need to start with an old Marshall.
Check out: http://www.marshallforum.com
Do a search.
WEll, that won't get the delay sounds... I don't know if he used an
Echoplex there (a VERY distinctive sound) or relied on a high-end studio
delay...
Eddies delay sounds are pretty heavily documented... He wasn't using great
stuff - that's what made him so cool.
Remember, he used a Variac too... Are you trying to get his guitar sound,
or the delay repeats?? Getting his guitar sound is like trying to find the
fountain of youth....
Some say EVH used a variac some say he didn't.
The truth may never be known.
He most certainly did use a variac. HE even said that he did. Although
some of his comments about the use of a variac weren't accurate. Some
say that he intentionally misled people, others say he didn't have a
complete understanding of the voltage issue. (In one interview, he
talked about cranking UP the voltage and melting down tubes. In
reality, you'd almost certainly pop the B+ fuse. But amps CAN melt down
tubes: http://www.timeelect.com/6550a-ex.htm ).
I recall a reputable source stating that it was a Super Lead on a variac
at LOWER than line voltage, into a 20 ohm dummy load on the 8 ohm tap,
with Sylvania 6CA7. Simple voltage divider to lower the level, then
typically he did time based effects and harmonizer AFTER the Marshall,
then solid state power amp to boost level back up, then speakers.
Post by New B.
There are articles that report that he used
an MXR phaser as the first pedal in the fx chain.
I should say that I don't chase his tone. My info is strictly from a
tech curiosity. But I've read the same. I say "typically" above,
because sometimes he used time based effects before the amp.
But the basics are fairly well documented. Super Lead on variac at
lower voltages, Sylvania 6CA7...
I don't dispute what you have said/read but am saying that
others have said the opposite regarding the Variac.
His use of the variac is so well documented that I wasn't aware that it
was a real controversy.
It's probably just a controversy amongst the 'cork sniffer' crowd.
YKWIM.

Eruption is a nice piece of guitar work, and good amp sound, but
really I have no desire to replicate it.
YMMV.
Post by Jim
Post by New B.
Some say that EVH intentionally mislead during interviews.
I don't want to chase anybodies tone, prefer to persue my own.
Some say that the 6CA7 is the bomb.
To me it's gotta be the combination of
the valves, circuit, speakers, cab, and the players touch.
IOW you could put together the exact same rig and not sound
like Eddie. Marshalls are notorious fortheir 'variability' from
amp to amp of the same model.
When the amps were newer, they were much more uniform. There was a 10%
tolerance on resistor values, 20% on some capacitors. But the
differences you hear today were often not there when the amp was built.
Resistor values often drift, especially carbon comp. Electrolytic
capacitors dry up, other types can become leaky. Tubes age, and get
replaced with different types.
But some of that "notorious variability" is no doubt people that don't
know that circuits changed at certain times, keeping the same model
number. It's painfully obvious fact that many guys don't even know that
there are different JCM 800 models. Let alone changes that happen
within a model.
So true.

As an owner of an early master volume one channel JCM 800 2204 head, I
am well aware of circuit changes, and the so called 'cross-over'
*models* where parts in stock were used first and there is quite a bit
of inconsistency even among new amps of varying models.

Hell even the combos are different from the heads of the same model
in some cases.

Don't get me wrong, I love my Marshall, but am no Marshall hoarder.
One good one is enough for me.
Jim
2010-07-31 22:47:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by New B.
Post by Jim
Post by New B.
Post by Jim
Post by New B.
On Fri, 30 Jul 2010 03:12:54 +0000 (UTC), TheChris
Post by TheChris
Post by New B.
On Thu, 29 Jul 2010 09:47:38 -0700 (PDT), Ryan Sheeler
Post by Ryan Sheeler
Hey all,
I've been playing around with my BOSS DD6 trying to get the growl/
divebomb at the end of Eruption - but I haven't quite got it. I've
downloaded and tried a lot of settings that people have tried using a
DD3 and earlier Boss units, but I haven't been able to duplicate that
sound with my DD6. Can anyone help? Thanks, Ry
You need to start with an old Marshall.
Check out: http://www.marshallforum.com
Do a search.
WEll, that won't get the delay sounds... I don't know if he used an
Echoplex there (a VERY distinctive sound) or relied on a high-end studio
delay...
Eddies delay sounds are pretty heavily documented... He wasn't using great
stuff - that's what made him so cool.
Remember, he used a Variac too... Are you trying to get his guitar sound,
or the delay repeats?? Getting his guitar sound is like trying to find the
fountain of youth....
Some say EVH used a variac some say he didn't.
The truth may never be known.
He most certainly did use a variac. HE even said that he did. Although
some of his comments about the use of a variac weren't accurate. Some
say that he intentionally misled people, others say he didn't have a
complete understanding of the voltage issue. (In one interview, he
talked about cranking UP the voltage and melting down tubes. In
reality, you'd almost certainly pop the B+ fuse. But amps CAN melt down
tubes: http://www.timeelect.com/6550a-ex.htm ).
I recall a reputable source stating that it was a Super Lead on a variac
at LOWER than line voltage, into a 20 ohm dummy load on the 8 ohm tap,
with Sylvania 6CA7. Simple voltage divider to lower the level, then
typically he did time based effects and harmonizer AFTER the Marshall,
then solid state power amp to boost level back up, then speakers.
Post by New B.
There are articles that report that he used
an MXR phaser as the first pedal in the fx chain.
I should say that I don't chase his tone. My info is strictly from a
tech curiosity. But I've read the same. I say "typically" above,
because sometimes he used time based effects before the amp.
But the basics are fairly well documented. Super Lead on variac at
lower voltages, Sylvania 6CA7...
I don't dispute what you have said/read but am saying that
others have said the opposite regarding the Variac.
His use of the variac is so well documented that I wasn't aware that it
was a real controversy.
It's probably just a controversy amongst the 'cork sniffer' crowd.
YKWIM.
Eruption is a nice piece of guitar work, and good amp sound, but
really I have no desire to replicate it.
YMMV.
Post by Jim
Post by New B.
Some say that EVH intentionally mislead during interviews.
I don't want to chase anybodies tone, prefer to persue my own.
Some say that the 6CA7 is the bomb.
To me it's gotta be the combination of
the valves, circuit, speakers, cab, and the players touch.
IOW you could put together the exact same rig and not sound
like Eddie. Marshalls are notorious fortheir 'variability' from
amp to amp of the same model.
When the amps were newer, they were much more uniform. There was a 10%
tolerance on resistor values, 20% on some capacitors. But the
differences you hear today were often not there when the amp was built.
Resistor values often drift, especially carbon comp. Electrolytic
capacitors dry up, other types can become leaky. Tubes age, and get
replaced with different types.
But some of that "notorious variability" is no doubt people that don't
know that circuits changed at certain times, keeping the same model
number. It's painfully obvious fact that many guys don't even know that
there are different JCM 800 models. Let alone changes that happen
within a model.
So true.
As an owner of an early master volume one channel JCM 800 2204 head, I
am well aware of circuit changes, and the so called 'cross-over'
*models* where parts in stock were used first and there is quite a bit
of inconsistency even among new amps of varying models.
Do you happen to know the B+ on the power tubes?

I own a JMP 2204. Marshall changed the voltage on the power transformer
when they moved to the JCM 800 model. The JMP runs under 400V on the
output plates (and lower voltages to all other plates). Not unlike
using a variac!!!

If you don't know the B+ value, ask your tech to write it down for you
the next time you change power tubes (or have the bias checked). I've
heard from owners that have under 400V, and from those that see around 450V.
Post by New B.
Hell even the combos are different from the heads of the same model
in some cases.
Don't get me wrong, I love my Marshall, but am no Marshall hoarder.
One good one is enough for me.
I only own one Marshall, also. But I own too many Fenders at the
moment. That's a different story. If I ever get off of my butt and
finish up restoration on my three Twins, I'll be able to make a choice
and sell two of them. I also have a Super and an EARLY silverface
Bandmaster. And lots of other amps. But my favorite, if I could only
keep one? The 2204.
TheChris
2010-08-01 02:07:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jim
Post by New B.
Post by Jim
Post by New B.
Post by Jim
Post by New B.
On Fri, 30 Jul 2010 03:12:54 +0000 (UTC), TheChris
Post by TheChris
Post by New B.
On Thu, 29 Jul 2010 09:47:38 -0700 (PDT), Ryan Sheeler
Post by Ryan Sheeler
Hey all,
I've been playing around with my BOSS DD6 trying to get the growl/
divebomb at the end of Eruption - but I haven't quite got it.
I've
Post by Jim
Post by New B.
Post by Jim
Post by New B.
Post by Jim
Post by New B.
Post by TheChris
Post by New B.
Post by Ryan Sheeler
downloaded and tried a lot of settings that people have tried using a
DD3 and earlier Boss units, but I haven't been able to
duplicate that
Post by Jim
Post by New B.
Post by Jim
Post by New B.
Post by Jim
Post by New B.
Post by TheChris
Post by New B.
Post by Ryan Sheeler
sound with my DD6. Can anyone help? Thanks, Ry
You need to start with an old Marshall.
Check out: http://www.marshallforum.com
Do a search.
WEll, that won't get the delay sounds... I don't know if he used an
Echoplex there (a VERY distinctive sound) or relied on a high-
end studio
Post by Jim
Post by New B.
Post by Jim
Post by New B.
Post by Jim
Post by New B.
Post by TheChris
delay...
Eddies delay sounds are pretty heavily documented... He wasn't using great
stuff - that's what made him so cool.
Remember, he used a Variac too... Are you trying to get his guitar sound,
or the delay repeats?? Getting his guitar sound is like trying to find the
fountain of youth....
Some say EVH used a variac some say he didn't.
The truth may never be known.
He most certainly did use a variac. HE even said that he did.
Although
Post by Jim
Post by New B.
Post by Jim
Post by New B.
Post by Jim
some of his comments about the use of a variac weren't accurate.
Some
Post by Jim
Post by New B.
Post by Jim
Post by New B.
Post by Jim
say that he intentionally misled people, others say he didn't have a
complete understanding of the voltage issue. (In one interview, he
talked about cranking UP the voltage and melting down tubes. In
reality, you'd almost certainly pop the B+ fuse. But amps CAN melt down
tubes: http://www.timeelect.com/6550a-ex.htm ).
I recall a reputable source stating that it was a Super Lead on a variac
at LOWER than line voltage, into a 20 ohm dummy load on the 8 ohm tap,
with Sylvania 6CA7. Simple voltage divider to lower the level, then
typically he did time based effects and harmonizer AFTER the Marshall,
then solid state power amp to boost level back up, then speakers.
Post by New B.
There are articles that report that he used
an MXR phaser as the first pedal in the fx chain.
I should say that I don't chase his tone. My info is strictly from a
tech curiosity. But I've read the same. I say "typically" above,
because sometimes he used time based effects before the amp.
But the basics are fairly well documented. Super Lead on variac at
lower voltages, Sylvania 6CA7...
I don't dispute what you have said/read but am saying that
others have said the opposite regarding the Variac.
His use of the variac is so well documented that I wasn't aware that it
was a real controversy.
It's probably just a controversy amongst the 'cork sniffer' crowd.
YKWIM.
Eruption is a nice piece of guitar work, and good amp sound, but
really I have no desire to replicate it.
YMMV.
Post by Jim
Post by New B.
Some say that EVH intentionally mislead during interviews.
I don't want to chase anybodies tone, prefer to persue my own.
Some say that the 6CA7 is the bomb.
To me it's gotta be the combination of
the valves, circuit, speakers, cab, and the players touch.
IOW you could put together the exact same rig and not sound
like Eddie. Marshalls are notorious fortheir 'variability' from
amp to amp of the same model.
When the amps were newer, they were much more uniform. There was a 10%
tolerance on resistor values, 20% on some capacitors. But the
differences you hear today were often not there when the amp was built.
Resistor values often drift, especially carbon comp. Electrolytic
capacitors dry up, other types can become leaky. Tubes age, and get
replaced with different types.
But some of that "notorious variability" is no doubt people that don't
know that circuits changed at certain times, keeping the same model
number. It's painfully obvious fact that many guys don't even know that
there are different JCM 800 models. Let alone changes that happen
within a model.
So true.
As an owner of an early master volume one channel JCM 800 2204 head, I
am well aware of circuit changes, and the so called 'cross-over'
*models* where parts in stock were used first and there is quite a bit
of inconsistency even among new amps of varying models.
Do you happen to know the B+ on the power tubes?
I own a JMP 2204. Marshall changed the voltage on the power
transformer
Post by Jim
when they moved to the JCM 800 model. The JMP runs under 400V on the
output plates (and lower voltages to all other plates). Not unlike
using a variac!!!
If you don't know the B+ value, ask your tech to write it down for you
the next time you change power tubes (or have the bias checked). I've
heard from owners that have under 400V, and from those that see around 450V.
Post by New B.
Hell even the combos are different from the heads of the same model
in some cases.
Don't get me wrong, I love my Marshall, but am no Marshall hoarder.
One good one is enough for me.
I only own one Marshall, also. But I own too many Fenders at the
moment. That's a different story. If I ever get off of my butt and
finish up restoration on my three Twins, I'll be able to make a choice
and sell two of them. I also have a Super and an EARLY silverface
Bandmaster. And lots of other amps. But my favorite, if I could only
keep one? The 2204.
I had a 2204 (1987) for over 20 years... Easily, one of the worst
sounding amps I ever owned. I kept it because everybody said I should
keep it and that it was 'the amp'....

Never got it... Posted dozens of things in here trying to make it sound
good.

The solution, I traded it straight up for a next year 2210 (100 watts,
loop, reverb, split-channel)

THAT'S what a Marshall amp should sound like! IMO - sounds 1,000 times
better than my 2204. My opinion...
New B.
2010-08-01 04:20:05 UTC
Permalink
On Sun, 1 Aug 2010 02:07:56 +0000 (UTC), TheChris
Post by TheChris
Post by Jim
I only own one Marshall, also. But I own too many Fenders at the
moment. That's a different story. If I ever get off of my butt and
finish up restoration on my three Twins, I'll be able to make a choice
and sell two of them. I also have a Super and an EARLY silverface
Bandmaster. And lots of other amps. But my favorite, if I could only
keep one? The 2204.
I had a 2204 (1987) for over 20 years... Easily, one of the worst
sounding amps I ever owned. I kept it because everybody said I should
keep it and that it was 'the amp'....
Never got it... Posted dozens of things in here trying to make it sound
good.
The solution, I traded it straight up for a next year 2210 (100 watts,
loop, reverb, split-channel)
THAT'S what a Marshall amp should sound like! IMO - sounds 1,000 times
better than my 2204. My opinion...
Your opinion is quite valid.

There were some 2204's that were crap out of the factory.
In fact some say that the 2204 is the most variable amp that
Marshall ever made.
You unfortunately got one of the POS ones.
Glad you got a decent trade.

What tubes, and what Pv, and B+ ?

From Bob at EuroTubes: http://www.eurotubes.com/euro-m.htm

The only warning I have on the 800 series amps is, always play one
before you buy one! They are the most inconsistent Marshall's ever
made. You can line up 10 of them no matter which model, and you will
find 2 or 3 that sound amazing, then 2 or 3 that sound really flat and
sterol with the rest of them sounding pretty good, but not amazing.
Good tubes and proper bias will help a few of the amps that fall in
that middle ground but you will find that several will still sound
mediocre at best even with good tubes and proper bias. Buyer beware!

BTW Bob, whether you like him or not, is not the only one with this
opinion of the 2204.

Bob ain't the best speller either, think he meant 'sterile'.
Don't know what 'sterol' means, guess he didn't have a spell checker.

Mine is a 1981 with (2) GE 6550A's.
It sounded great from the day I bought it.
TheChris
2010-08-02 03:32:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by New B.
On Sun, 1 Aug 2010 02:07:56 +0000 (UTC), TheChris
Post by TheChris
Post by Jim
I only own one Marshall, also. But I own too many Fenders at the
moment. That's a different story. If I ever get off of my butt and
finish up restoration on my three Twins, I'll be able to make a choice
and sell two of them. I also have a Super and an EARLY silverface
Bandmaster. And lots of other amps. But my favorite, if I could only
keep one? The 2204.
I had a 2204 (1987) for over 20 years... Easily, one of the worst
sounding amps I ever owned. I kept it because everybody said I should
keep it and that it was 'the amp'....
Never got it... Posted dozens of things in here trying to make it sound
good.
The solution, I traded it straight up for a next year 2210 (100 watts,
loop, reverb, split-channel)
THAT'S what a Marshall amp should sound like! IMO - sounds 1,000 times
better than my 2204. My opinion...
Your opinion is quite valid.
There were some 2204's that were crap out of the factory.
In fact some say that the 2204 is the most variable amp that
Marshall ever made.
You unfortunately got one of the POS ones.
Glad you got a decent trade.
What tubes, and what Pv, and B+ ?
From Bob at EuroTubes: http://www.eurotubes.com/euro-m.htm
The only warning I have on the 800 series amps is, always play one
before you buy one! They are the most inconsistent Marshall's ever
made. You can line up 10 of them no matter which model, and you will
find 2 or 3 that sound amazing, then 2 or 3 that sound really flat and
sterol with the rest of them sounding pretty good, but not amazing.
Good tubes and proper bias will help a few of the amps that fall in
that middle ground but you will find that several will still sound
mediocre at best even with good tubes and proper bias. Buyer beware!
BTW Bob, whether you like him or not, is not the only one with this
opinion of the 2204.
Bob ain't the best speller either, think he meant 'sterile'.
Don't know what 'sterol' means, guess he didn't have a spell checker.
Mine is a 1981 with (2) GE 6550A's.
It sounded great from the day I bought it.
The 2204 I had used KT88's in it... Never saw that tube in another amp.
The 2210 I have now uses EL34's I believe - or something common.

I got that amp within a week of getting a Carvin Legacy head (Vai). The
Legacy is switchable between EL34's and 6550's?? - I just keep the 34's
on there... THAT'S a great amp!
New B.
2010-08-03 00:20:12 UTC
Permalink
On Mon, 2 Aug 2010 03:32:45 +0000 (UTC), TheChris
Post by Jim
Post by New B.
On Sun, 1 Aug 2010 02:07:56 +0000 (UTC), TheChris
Post by TheChris
Post by Jim
I only own one Marshall, also. But I own too many Fenders at the
moment. That's a different story. If I ever get off of my butt and
finish up restoration on my three Twins, I'll be able to make a
choice
Post by New B.
Post by TheChris
Post by Jim
and sell two of them. I also have a Super and an EARLY silverface
Bandmaster. And lots of other amps. But my favorite, if I could
only
Post by New B.
Post by TheChris
Post by Jim
keep one? The 2204.
I had a 2204 (1987) for over 20 years... Easily, one of the worst
sounding amps I ever owned. I kept it because everybody said I should
keep it and that it was 'the amp'....
Never got it... Posted dozens of things in here trying to make it
sound
Post by New B.
Post by TheChris
good.
The solution, I traded it straight up for a next year 2210 (100 watts,
loop, reverb, split-channel)
THAT'S what a Marshall amp should sound like! IMO - sounds 1,000
times
Post by New B.
Post by TheChris
better than my 2204. My opinion...
Your opinion is quite valid.
There were some 2204's that were crap out of the factory.
In fact some say that the 2204 is the most variable amp that
Marshall ever made.
You unfortunately got one of the POS ones.
Glad you got a decent trade.
What tubes, and what Pv, and B+ ?
From Bob at EuroTubes: http://www.eurotubes.com/euro-m.htm
The only warning I have on the 800 series amps is, always play one
before you buy one! They are the most inconsistent Marshall's ever
made. You can line up 10 of them no matter which model, and you will
find 2 or 3 that sound amazing, then 2 or 3 that sound really flat and
sterol with the rest of them sounding pretty good, but not amazing.
Good tubes and proper bias will help a few of the amps that fall in
that middle ground but you will find that several will still sound
mediocre at best even with good tubes and proper bias. Buyer beware!
BTW Bob, whether you like him or not, is not the only one with this
opinion of the 2204.
Bob ain't the best speller either, think he meant 'sterile'.
Don't know what 'sterol' means, guess he didn't have a spell checker.
Mine is a 1981 with (2) GE 6550A's.
It sounded great from the day I bought it.
The 2204 I had used KT88's in it... Never saw that tube in another amp.
The 2210 I have now uses EL34's I believe - or something common.
I got that amp within a week of getting a Carvin Legacy head (Vai). The
Legacy is switchable between EL34's and 6550's?? - I just keep the 34's
on there... THAT'S a great amp!
Sounds interesting.

Will let you know when I put the KT 88s in the 2204.
TheChris
2010-08-03 12:41:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by New B.
On Mon, 2 Aug 2010 03:32:45 +0000 (UTC), TheChris
news:2os956tntbuadqorfqll3msjql771ahig4
Post by New B.
Post by Jim
Post by New B.
On Sun, 1 Aug 2010 02:07:56 +0000 (UTC), TheChris
Post by TheChris
Post by Jim
I only own one Marshall, also. But I own too many Fenders at the
moment. That's a different story. If I ever get off of my butt and
finish up restoration on my three Twins, I'll be able to make a
choice
Post by New B.
Post by TheChris
Post by Jim
and sell two of them. I also have a Super and an EARLY silverface
Bandmaster. And lots of other amps. But my favorite, if I could
only
Post by New B.
Post by TheChris
Post by Jim
keep one? The 2204.
I had a 2204 (1987) for over 20 years... Easily, one of the worst
sounding amps I ever owned. I kept it because everybody said I should
keep it and that it was 'the amp'....
Never got it... Posted dozens of things in here trying to make it
sound
Post by New B.
Post by TheChris
good.
The solution, I traded it straight up for a next year 2210 (100 watts,
loop, reverb, split-channel)
THAT'S what a Marshall amp should sound like! IMO - sounds 1,000
times
Post by New B.
Post by TheChris
better than my 2204. My opinion...
Your opinion is quite valid.
There were some 2204's that were crap out of the factory.
In fact some say that the 2204 is the most variable amp that
Marshall ever made.
You unfortunately got one of the POS ones.
Glad you got a decent trade.
What tubes, and what Pv, and B+ ?
From Bob at EuroTubes: http://www.eurotubes.com/euro-m.htm
The only warning I have on the 800 series amps is, always play one
before you buy one! They are the most inconsistent Marshall's ever
made. You can line up 10 of them no matter which model, and you will
find 2 or 3 that sound amazing, then 2 or 3 that sound really flat and
sterol with the rest of them sounding pretty good, but not amazing.
Good tubes and proper bias will help a few of the amps that fall in
that middle ground but you will find that several will still sound
mediocre at best even with good tubes and proper bias. Buyer beware!
BTW Bob, whether you like him or not, is not the only one with this
opinion of the 2204.
Bob ain't the best speller either, think he meant 'sterile'.
Don't know what 'sterol' means, guess he didn't have a spell
checker.
Post by New B.
Post by Jim
Post by New B.
Mine is a 1981 with (2) GE 6550A's.
It sounded great from the day I bought it.
The 2204 I had used KT88's in it... Never saw that tube in another amp.
The 2210 I have now uses EL34's I believe - or something common.
I got that amp within a week of getting a Carvin Legacy head (Vai). The
Legacy is switchable between EL34's and 6550's?? - I just keep the 34's
on there... THAT'S a great amp!
Sounds interesting.
Will let you know when I put the KT 88s in the 2204.
If I have any say in it.... DON'T! :)
New B.
2010-08-03 15:01:33 UTC
Permalink
On Tue, 3 Aug 2010 12:41:00 +0000 (UTC), TheChris
Post by TheChris
Post by New B.
Post by TheChris
Post by New B.
Mine is a 1981 with (2) GE 6550A's.
It sounded great from the day I bought it.
The 2204 I had used KT88's in it... Never saw that tube in another
amp.
Post by New B.
Post by TheChris
The 2210 I have now uses EL34's I believe - or something common.
I got that amp within a week of getting a Carvin Legacy head (Vai).
The
Post by New B.
Post by TheChris
Legacy is switchable between EL34's and 6550's?? - I just keep the
34's
Post by New B.
Post by TheChris
on there... THAT'S a great amp!
Sounds interesting.
Will let you know when I put the KT 88s in the 2204.
If I have any say in it.... DON'T! :)
OK, but why ? Educate me, please.

And, is there a current production 6550A that you recommend ?
TheChris
2010-08-03 18:01:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by New B.
On Tue, 3 Aug 2010 12:41:00 +0000 (UTC), TheChris
Post by TheChris
Post by New B.
Post by TheChris
Post by New B.
Mine is a 1981 with (2) GE 6550A's.
It sounded great from the day I bought it.
The 2204 I had used KT88's in it... Never saw that tube in another
amp.
Post by New B.
Post by TheChris
The 2210 I have now uses EL34's I believe - or something common.
I got that amp within a week of getting a Carvin Legacy head (Vai).
The
Post by New B.
Post by TheChris
Legacy is switchable between EL34's and 6550's?? - I just keep the
34's
Post by New B.
Post by TheChris
on there... THAT'S a great amp!
Sounds interesting.
Will let you know when I put the KT 88s in the 2204.
If I have any say in it.... DON'T! :)
OK, but why ? Educate me, please.
And, is there a current production 6550A that you recommend ?
Because my amp sounded like crap... All other Marshall's that seem to be
revered have EL34's or 6550's.

But - it sounded like crap - to me. I want to sound like Judas
Priest/Nugent/EVH.
New B.
2010-08-03 19:55:15 UTC
Permalink
On Tue, 3 Aug 2010 18:01:09 +0000 (UTC), TheChris
Post by TheChris
Post by New B.
On Tue, 3 Aug 2010 12:41:00 +0000 (UTC), TheChris
Post by TheChris
Post by New B.
Post by TheChris
Post by New B.
Mine is a 1981 with (2) GE 6550A's.
It sounded great from the day I bought it.
The 2204 I had used KT88's in it... Never saw that tube in another
amp.
Post by New B.
Post by TheChris
The 2210 I have now uses EL34's I believe - or something common.
I got that amp within a week of getting a Carvin Legacy head (Vai).
The
Post by New B.
Post by TheChris
Legacy is switchable between EL34's and 6550's?? - I just keep the
34's
Post by New B.
Post by TheChris
on there... THAT'S a great amp!
Sounds interesting.
Will let you know when I put the KT 88s in the 2204.
If I have any say in it.... DON'T! :)
OK, but why ? Educate me, please.
And, is there a current production 6550A that you recommend ?
Because my amp sounded like crap... All other Marshall's that seem to be
revered have EL34's or 6550's.
But - it sounded like crap - to me. I want to sound like Judas
Priest/Nugent/EVH.
Mine sounds like Billy Gibbons if you play a LP with
the bridge pup.

Were the tubes biased correctly ?

I just didn't want to take the ANOS GE 6550s on the road.
Just looking for a good substitute as NOS seem rather pricey.
TheChris
2010-08-03 22:51:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by New B.
On Tue, 3 Aug 2010 18:01:09 +0000 (UTC), TheChris
Post by TheChris
Post by New B.
On Tue, 3 Aug 2010 12:41:00 +0000 (UTC), TheChris
Post by TheChris
Post by New B.
Post by TheChris
Post by New B.
Mine is a 1981 with (2) GE 6550A's.
It sounded great from the day I bought it.
The 2204 I had used KT88's in it... Never saw that tube in another
amp.
Post by New B.
Post by TheChris
The 2210 I have now uses EL34's I believe - or something common.
I got that amp within a week of getting a Carvin Legacy head (Vai).
The
Post by New B.
Post by TheChris
Legacy is switchable between EL34's and 6550's?? - I just keep the
34's
Post by New B.
Post by TheChris
on there... THAT'S a great amp!
Sounds interesting.
Will let you know when I put the KT 88s in the 2204.
If I have any say in it.... DON'T! :)
OK, but why ? Educate me, please.
And, is there a current production 6550A that you recommend ?
Because my amp sounded like crap... All other Marshall's that seem to be
revered have EL34's or 6550's.
But - it sounded like crap - to me. I want to sound like Judas
Priest/Nugent/EVH.
Mine sounds like Billy Gibbons if you play a LP with
the bridge pup.
Were the tubes biased correctly ?
I just didn't want to take the ANOS GE 6550s on the road.
Just looking for a good substitute as NOS seem rather pricey.
Yeah - I had a bunch of amp guys work on it during its career.... It just didn't
sing to me...
Jim
2010-08-02 20:51:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ryan Sheeler
Post by Jim
Post by New B.
Post by Jim
Post by New B.
Post by Jim
Post by New B.
On Fri, 30 Jul 2010 03:12:54 +0000 (UTC), TheChris
Post by TheChris
Post by New B.
On Thu, 29 Jul 2010 09:47:38 -0700 (PDT), Ryan Sheeler
Post by Ryan Sheeler
Hey all,
I've been playing around with my BOSS DD6 trying to get the
growl/
Post by Jim
Post by New B.
Post by Jim
Post by New B.
Post by Jim
Post by New B.
Post by TheChris
Post by New B.
Post by Ryan Sheeler
divebomb at the end of Eruption - but I haven't quite got it.
I've
Post by Jim
Post by New B.
Post by Jim
Post by New B.
Post by Jim
Post by New B.
Post by TheChris
Post by New B.
Post by Ryan Sheeler
downloaded and tried a lot of settings that people have tried
using a
Post by Jim
Post by New B.
Post by Jim
Post by New B.
Post by Jim
Post by New B.
Post by TheChris
Post by New B.
Post by Ryan Sheeler
DD3 and earlier Boss units, but I haven't been able to
duplicate that
Post by Jim
Post by New B.
Post by Jim
Post by New B.
Post by Jim
Post by New B.
Post by TheChris
Post by New B.
Post by Ryan Sheeler
sound with my DD6. Can anyone help? Thanks, Ry
You need to start with an old Marshall.
Check out: http://www.marshallforum.com
Do a search.
WEll, that won't get the delay sounds... I don't know if he used
an
Post by Jim
Post by New B.
Post by Jim
Post by New B.
Post by Jim
Post by New B.
Post by TheChris
Echoplex there (a VERY distinctive sound) or relied on a high-
end studio
Post by Jim
Post by New B.
Post by Jim
Post by New B.
Post by Jim
Post by New B.
Post by TheChris
delay...
Eddies delay sounds are pretty heavily documented... He wasn't
using great
Post by Jim
Post by New B.
Post by Jim
Post by New B.
Post by Jim
Post by New B.
Post by TheChris
stuff - that's what made him so cool.
Remember, he used a Variac too... Are you trying to get his
guitar sound,
Post by Jim
Post by New B.
Post by Jim
Post by New B.
Post by Jim
Post by New B.
Post by TheChris
or the delay repeats?? Getting his guitar sound is like trying
to find the
Post by Jim
Post by New B.
Post by Jim
Post by New B.
Post by Jim
Post by New B.
Post by TheChris
fountain of youth....
Some say EVH used a variac some say he didn't.
The truth may never be known.
He most certainly did use a variac. HE even said that he did.
Although
Post by Jim
Post by New B.
Post by Jim
Post by New B.
Post by Jim
some of his comments about the use of a variac weren't accurate.
Some
Post by Jim
Post by New B.
Post by Jim
Post by New B.
Post by Jim
say that he intentionally misled people, others say he didn't have
a
Post by Jim
Post by New B.
Post by Jim
Post by New B.
Post by Jim
complete understanding of the voltage issue. (In one interview,
he
Post by Jim
Post by New B.
Post by Jim
Post by New B.
Post by Jim
talked about cranking UP the voltage and melting down tubes. In
reality, you'd almost certainly pop the B+ fuse. But amps CAN
melt down
Post by Jim
Post by New B.
Post by Jim
Post by New B.
Post by Jim
tubes: http://www.timeelect.com/6550a-ex.htm ).
I recall a reputable source stating that it was a Super Lead on a
variac
Post by Jim
Post by New B.
Post by Jim
Post by New B.
Post by Jim
at LOWER than line voltage, into a 20 ohm dummy load on the 8 ohm
tap,
Post by Jim
Post by New B.
Post by Jim
Post by New B.
Post by Jim
with Sylvania 6CA7. Simple voltage divider to lower the level,
then
Post by Jim
Post by New B.
Post by Jim
Post by New B.
Post by Jim
typically he did time based effects and harmonizer AFTER the
Marshall,
Post by Jim
Post by New B.
Post by Jim
Post by New B.
Post by Jim
then solid state power amp to boost level back up, then speakers.
Post by New B.
There are articles that report that he used
an MXR phaser as the first pedal in the fx chain.
I should say that I don't chase his tone. My info is strictly
from a
Post by Jim
Post by New B.
Post by Jim
Post by New B.
Post by Jim
tech curiosity. But I've read the same. I say "typically" above,
because sometimes he used time based effects before the amp.
But the basics are fairly well documented. Super Lead on variac
at
Post by Jim
Post by New B.
Post by Jim
Post by New B.
Post by Jim
lower voltages, Sylvania 6CA7...
I don't dispute what you have said/read but am saying that
others have said the opposite regarding the Variac.
His use of the variac is so well documented that I wasn't aware that
it
Post by Jim
Post by New B.
Post by Jim
was a real controversy.
It's probably just a controversy amongst the 'cork sniffer' crowd.
YKWIM.
Eruption is a nice piece of guitar work, and good amp sound, but
really I have no desire to replicate it.
YMMV.
Post by Jim
Post by New B.
Some say that EVH intentionally mislead during interviews.
I don't want to chase anybodies tone, prefer to persue my own.
Some say that the 6CA7 is the bomb.
To me it's gotta be the combination of
the valves, circuit, speakers, cab, and the players touch.
IOW you could put together the exact same rig and not sound
like Eddie. Marshalls are notorious fortheir 'variability' from
amp to amp of the same model.
When the amps were newer, they were much more uniform. There was a
10%
Post by Jim
Post by New B.
Post by Jim
tolerance on resistor values, 20% on some capacitors. But the
differences you hear today were often not there when the amp was
built.
Post by Jim
Post by New B.
Post by Jim
Resistor values often drift, especially carbon comp. Electrolytic
capacitors dry up, other types can become leaky. Tubes age, and get
replaced with different types.
But some of that "notorious variability" is no doubt people that
don't
Post by Jim
Post by New B.
Post by Jim
know that circuits changed at certain times, keeping the same model
number. It's painfully obvious fact that many guys don't even know
that
Post by Jim
Post by New B.
Post by Jim
there are different JCM 800 models. Let alone changes that happen
within a model.
So true.
As an owner of an early master volume one channel JCM 800 2204 head,
I
Post by Jim
Post by New B.
am well aware of circuit changes, and the so called 'cross-over'
*models* where parts in stock were used first and there is quite a
bit
Post by Jim
Post by New B.
of inconsistency even among new amps of varying models.
Do you happen to know the B+ on the power tubes?
I own a JMP 2204. Marshall changed the voltage on the power
transformer
Post by Jim
when they moved to the JCM 800 model. The JMP runs under 400V on the
output plates (and lower voltages to all other plates). Not unlike
using a variac!!!
If you don't know the B+ value, ask your tech to write it down for you
the next time you change power tubes (or have the bias checked). I've
heard from owners that have under 400V, and from those that see around
450V.
Post by Jim
Post by New B.
Hell even the combos are different from the heads of the same model
in some cases.
Don't get me wrong, I love my Marshall, but am no Marshall hoarder.
One good one is enough for me.
I only own one Marshall, also. But I own too many Fenders at the
moment. That's a different story. If I ever get off of my butt and
finish up restoration on my three Twins, I'll be able to make a choice
and sell two of them. I also have a Super and an EARLY silverface
Bandmaster. And lots of other amps. But my favorite, if I could only
keep one? The 2204.
I had a 2204 (1987) for over 20 years... Easily, one of the worst
sounding amps I ever owned. I kept it because everybody said I should
keep it and that it was 'the amp'....
You're illustrating one of my points!: The 1987 version of the 2204 is
VERY different than my 2204. Higher voltages. And didn't that one have
an effects loop? Less power supply filtration. And were you using real
Mullards in V1, V2 and V3? With decent EL34 power tubes that were
matched and biased "a bit warm?"

I have absolutely no doubt that your 2204 sounded COMPLETELY different
from my 2204.

Then there's the fact that I like to push a vintage Hiwatt/Fane 4x12
with it, because it's an inefficient cab that's on the darker side of
the tone spectrum. Works extremely well with that amp because you can
get power tube distortion MUCH earlier than with a typical 4x12 (because
it takes way more power to get the same volume), and because the
warm/dark voicing works well with preamp distortion for when you just
can't crank the power amp.
Post by Ryan Sheeler
Never got it... Posted dozens of things in here trying to make it sound
good.
The solution, I traded it straight up for a next year 2210 (100 watts,
loop, reverb, split-channel)
THAT'S what a Marshall amp should sound like! IMO - sounds 1,000 times
better than my 2204. My opinion...
New B.
2010-08-03 00:18:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jim
Post by TheChris
Post by Jim
If you don't know the B+ value, ask your tech to write it down for you
the next time you change power tubes (or have the bias checked). I've
heard from owners that have under 400V, and from those that see around
450V.
Post by Jim
Post by New B.
Hell even the combos are different from the heads of the same model
in some cases.
Don't get me wrong, I love my Marshall, but am no Marshall hoarder.
One good one is enough for me.
I only own one Marshall, also. But I own too many Fenders at the
moment. That's a different story. If I ever get off of my butt and
finish up restoration on my three Twins, I'll be able to make a choice
and sell two of them. I also have a Super and an EARLY silverface
Bandmaster. And lots of other amps. But my favorite, if I could only
keep one? The 2204.
I had a 2204 (1987) for over 20 years... Easily, one of the worst
sounding amps I ever owned. I kept it because everybody said I should
keep it and that it was 'the amp'....
You're illustrating one of my points!: The 1987 version of the 2204 is
VERY different than my 2204. Higher voltages. And didn't that one have
an effects loop? Less power supply filtration. And were you using real
Mullards in V1, V2 and V3? With decent EL34 power tubes that were
matched and biased "a bit warm?"
I have absolutely no doubt that your 2204 sounded COMPLETELY different
from my 2204.
Then there's the fact that I like to push a vintage Hiwatt/Fane 4x12
with it, because it's an inefficient cab that's on the darker side of
the tone spectrum. Works extremely well with that amp because you can
get power tube distortion MUCH earlier than with a typical 4x12 (because
it takes way more power to get the same volume), and because the
warm/dark voicing works well with preamp distortion for when you just
can't crank the power amp.
Hmmm, next time I get a 4X12...
TheChris
2010-08-03 12:48:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jim
Post by Ryan Sheeler
Post by Jim
Post by New B.
Post by Jim
Post by New B.
Post by Jim
Post by New B.
On Fri, 30 Jul 2010 03:12:54 +0000 (UTC), TheChris
Post by TheChris
Post by New B.
On Thu, 29 Jul 2010 09:47:38 -0700 (PDT), Ryan Sheeler
Post by Ryan Sheeler
Hey all,
I've been playing around with my BOSS DD6 trying to get the
growl/
Post by Jim
Post by New B.
Post by Jim
Post by New B.
Post by Jim
Post by New B.
Post by TheChris
Post by New B.
Post by Ryan Sheeler
divebomb at the end of Eruption - but I haven't quite got it.
I've
Post by Jim
Post by New B.
Post by Jim
Post by New B.
Post by Jim
Post by New B.
Post by TheChris
Post by New B.
Post by Ryan Sheeler
downloaded and tried a lot of settings that people have tried
using a
Post by Jim
Post by New B.
Post by Jim
Post by New B.
Post by Jim
Post by New B.
Post by TheChris
Post by New B.
Post by Ryan Sheeler
DD3 and earlier Boss units, but I haven't been able to
duplicate that
Post by Jim
Post by New B.
Post by Jim
Post by New B.
Post by Jim
Post by New B.
Post by TheChris
Post by New B.
Post by Ryan Sheeler
sound with my DD6. Can anyone help? Thanks, Ry
You need to start with an old Marshall.
Check out: http://www.marshallforum.com
Do a search.
WEll, that won't get the delay sounds... I don't know if he used
an
Post by Jim
Post by New B.
Post by Jim
Post by New B.
Post by Jim
Post by New B.
Post by TheChris
Echoplex there (a VERY distinctive sound) or relied on a high-
end studio
Post by Jim
Post by New B.
Post by Jim
Post by New B.
Post by Jim
Post by New B.
Post by TheChris
delay...
Eddies delay sounds are pretty heavily documented... He wasn't
using great
Post by Jim
Post by New B.
Post by Jim
Post by New B.
Post by Jim
Post by New B.
Post by TheChris
stuff - that's what made him so cool.
Remember, he used a Variac too... Are you trying to get his
guitar sound,
Post by Jim
Post by New B.
Post by Jim
Post by New B.
Post by Jim
Post by New B.
Post by TheChris
or the delay repeats?? Getting his guitar sound is like trying
to find the
Post by Jim
Post by New B.
Post by Jim
Post by New B.
Post by Jim
Post by New B.
Post by TheChris
fountain of youth....
Some say EVH used a variac some say he didn't.
The truth may never be known.
He most certainly did use a variac. HE even said that he did.
Although
Post by Jim
Post by New B.
Post by Jim
Post by New B.
Post by Jim
some of his comments about the use of a variac weren't accurate.
Some
Post by Jim
Post by New B.
Post by Jim
Post by New B.
Post by Jim
say that he intentionally misled people, others say he didn't have
a
Post by Jim
Post by New B.
Post by Jim
Post by New B.
Post by Jim
complete understanding of the voltage issue. (In one interview,
he
Post by Jim
Post by New B.
Post by Jim
Post by New B.
Post by Jim
talked about cranking UP the voltage and melting down tubes. In
reality, you'd almost certainly pop the B+ fuse. But amps CAN
melt down
Post by Jim
Post by New B.
Post by Jim
Post by New B.
Post by Jim
tubes: http://www.timeelect.com/6550a-ex.htm ).
I recall a reputable source stating that it was a Super Lead on a
variac
Post by Jim
Post by New B.
Post by Jim
Post by New B.
Post by Jim
at LOWER than line voltage, into a 20 ohm dummy load on the 8 ohm
tap,
Post by Jim
Post by New B.
Post by Jim
Post by New B.
Post by Jim
with Sylvania 6CA7. Simple voltage divider to lower the level,
then
Post by Jim
Post by New B.
Post by Jim
Post by New B.
Post by Jim
typically he did time based effects and harmonizer AFTER the
Marshall,
Post by Jim
Post by New B.
Post by Jim
Post by New B.
Post by Jim
then solid state power amp to boost level back up, then
speakers.
Post by Jim
Post by Ryan Sheeler
Post by Jim
Post by New B.
Post by Jim
Post by New B.
Post by Jim
Post by New B.
There are articles that report that he used
an MXR phaser as the first pedal in the fx chain.
I should say that I don't chase his tone. My info is strictly
from a
Post by Jim
Post by New B.
Post by Jim
Post by New B.
Post by Jim
tech curiosity. But I've read the same. I say "typically" above,
because sometimes he used time based effects before the amp.
But the basics are fairly well documented. Super Lead on variac
at
Post by Jim
Post by New B.
Post by Jim
Post by New B.
Post by Jim
lower voltages, Sylvania 6CA7...
I don't dispute what you have said/read but am saying that
others have said the opposite regarding the Variac.
His use of the variac is so well documented that I wasn't aware that
it
Post by Jim
Post by New B.
Post by Jim
was a real controversy.
It's probably just a controversy amongst the 'cork sniffer' crowd.
YKWIM.
Eruption is a nice piece of guitar work, and good amp sound, but
really I have no desire to replicate it.
YMMV.
Post by Jim
Post by New B.
Some say that EVH intentionally mislead during interviews.
I don't want to chase anybodies tone, prefer to persue my own.
Some say that the 6CA7 is the bomb.
To me it's gotta be the combination of
the valves, circuit, speakers, cab, and the players touch.
IOW you could put together the exact same rig and not sound
like Eddie. Marshalls are notorious fortheir 'variability' from
amp to amp of the same model.
When the amps were newer, they were much more uniform. There was a
10%
Post by Jim
Post by New B.
Post by Jim
tolerance on resistor values, 20% on some capacitors. But the
differences you hear today were often not there when the amp was
built.
Post by Jim
Post by New B.
Post by Jim
Resistor values often drift, especially carbon comp. Electrolytic
capacitors dry up, other types can become leaky. Tubes age, and get
replaced with different types.
But some of that "notorious variability" is no doubt people that
don't
Post by Jim
Post by New B.
Post by Jim
know that circuits changed at certain times, keeping the same model
number. It's painfully obvious fact that many guys don't even know
that
Post by Jim
Post by New B.
Post by Jim
there are different JCM 800 models. Let alone changes that happen
within a model.
So true.
As an owner of an early master volume one channel JCM 800 2204 head,
I
Post by Jim
Post by New B.
am well aware of circuit changes, and the so called 'cross-over'
*models* where parts in stock were used first and there is quite a
bit
Post by Jim
Post by New B.
of inconsistency even among new amps of varying models.
Do you happen to know the B+ on the power tubes?
I own a JMP 2204. Marshall changed the voltage on the power
transformer
Post by Jim
when they moved to the JCM 800 model. The JMP runs under 400V on the
output plates (and lower voltages to all other plates). Not unlike
using a variac!!!
If you don't know the B+ value, ask your tech to write it down for you
the next time you change power tubes (or have the bias checked).
I've
Post by Jim
Post by Ryan Sheeler
Post by Jim
heard from owners that have under 400V, and from those that see around
450V.
Post by Jim
Post by New B.
Hell even the combos are different from the heads of the same model
in some cases.
Don't get me wrong, I love my Marshall, but am no Marshall hoarder.
One good one is enough for me.
I only own one Marshall, also. But I own too many Fenders at the
moment. That's a different story. If I ever get off of my butt and
finish up restoration on my three Twins, I'll be able to make a choice
and sell two of them. I also have a Super and an EARLY silverface
Bandmaster. And lots of other amps. But my favorite, if I could only
keep one? The 2204.
I had a 2204 (1987) for over 20 years... Easily, one of the worst
sounding amps I ever owned. I kept it because everybody said I should
keep it and that it was 'the amp'....
You're illustrating one of my points!: The 1987 version of the 2204 is
VERY different than my 2204. Higher voltages. And didn't that one have
an effects loop? Less power supply filtration. And were you using real
Mullards in V1, V2 and V3? With decent EL34 power tubes that were
matched and biased "a bit warm?"
I have absolutely no doubt that your 2204 sounded COMPLETELY different
from my 2204.
Then there's the fact that I like to push a vintage Hiwatt/Fane 4x12
with it, because it's an inefficient cab that's on the darker side of
the tone spectrum. Works extremely well with that amp because you can
get power tube distortion MUCH earlier than with a typical 4x12 (because
it takes way more power to get the same volume), and because the
warm/dark voicing works well with preamp distortion for when you just
can't crank the power amp.
Post by Ryan Sheeler
Never got it... Posted dozens of things in here trying to make it sound
good.
The solution, I traded it straight up for a next year 2210 (100 watts,
loop, reverb, split-channel)
THAT'S what a Marshall amp should sound like! IMO - sounds 1,000 times
better than my 2204. My opinion...
Jim - we've had this discussion for years.... You're always pushing the
Mullards.... My point is... I can't imagine it changing the character of
the amp that much. Over the course of my 20 year ownership, I must have
changed out tubes dozens of times... It never made a real difference. I
had it worked on by amp builders - no difference.

My point is.... I have had 30 other amps in my lifetime - Fenders,
Peaveys, Silvertones, Laneys, Randalls, Guilds, etc, etc.. ALL of them
were more responsive and less annoying than mine.

Having had the same issue with a JCM900 this weekend - amps that were
rented for Bad Company... I think I can safely say that I just don't
like Marshalls as much as I thought I should:)
New B.
2010-08-03 15:06:45 UTC
Permalink
On Tue, 3 Aug 2010 12:48:40 +0000 (UTC), TheChris
Post by TheChris
Post by TheChris
Never got it... Posted dozens of things in here trying to make it
sound
Post by TheChris
good.
The solution, I traded it straight up for a next year 2210 (100
watts,
Post by TheChris
loop, reverb, split-channel)
THAT'S what a Marshall amp should sound like! IMO - sounds 1,000
times
Post by TheChris
better than my 2204. My opinion...
Jim - we've had this discussion for years.... You're always pushing the
Mullards.... My point is... I can't imagine it changing the character of
the amp that much. Over the course of my 20 year ownership, I must have
changed out tubes dozens of times... It never made a real difference. I
had it worked on by amp builders - no difference.
My point is.... I have had 30 other amps in my lifetime - Fenders,
Peaveys, Silvertones, Laneys, Randalls, Guilds, etc, etc.. ALL of them
were more responsive and less annoying than mine.
Having had the same issue with a JCM900 this weekend - amps that were
rented for Bad Company... I think I can safely say that I just don't
like Marshalls as much as I thought I should:)
From what I've gathered from reading the Marshall forum, and other
sources, Marshalls come in three flavors.

Great, Mediocre, and Crappy.
Some Mediocre can be tweaked to Good.
Crappy ones either need a rebuild, or a trash bin.

What is really curious on the Marshall forum is that those with
EL-34 want to convert to 6550s; and those with 6550s want to convert
to EL-34s.

Sounds like a case for getting two amps to me, one of each.
TheChris
2010-08-03 18:04:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by New B.
On Tue, 3 Aug 2010 12:48:40 +0000 (UTC), TheChris
Post by TheChris
Post by TheChris
Never got it... Posted dozens of things in here trying to make it
sound
Post by TheChris
good.
The solution, I traded it straight up for a next year 2210 (100
watts,
Post by TheChris
loop, reverb, split-channel)
THAT'S what a Marshall amp should sound like! IMO - sounds 1,000
times
Post by TheChris
better than my 2204. My opinion...
Jim - we've had this discussion for years.... You're always pushing the
Mullards.... My point is... I can't imagine it changing the character of
the amp that much. Over the course of my 20 year ownership, I must have
changed out tubes dozens of times... It never made a real difference. I
had it worked on by amp builders - no difference.
My point is.... I have had 30 other amps in my lifetime - Fenders,
Peaveys, Silvertones, Laneys, Randalls, Guilds, etc, etc.. ALL of them
were more responsive and less annoying than mine.
Having had the same issue with a JCM900 this weekend - amps that were
rented for Bad Company... I think I can safely say that I just don't
like Marshalls as much as I thought I should:)
From what I've gathered from reading the Marshall forum, and other
sources, Marshalls come in three flavors.
Great, Mediocre, and Crappy.
Some Mediocre can be tweaked to Good.
Crappy ones either need a rebuild, or a trash bin.
What is really curious on the Marshall forum is that those with
EL-34 want to convert to 6550s; and those with 6550s want to convert
to EL-34s.
Sounds like a case for getting two amps to me, one of each.
As I said in another thread - I traded my 2204 for a 2210 - the model
that Matthias Jabbs uses (Scorpions). It was INSTANTLY better sounding.
When I did the trade - I plugged my head into a cab and played - he
plugged his head into the same cab and played. I almost thought I lost
the trade when he started playing - but, he seemed to like its 'lack of
gain and harmonics' :)

Dude - I bought a Carvin Legacy 100 for $400 within a week of that
trade. It SMOKES the Marshall in EVERY department...and the cleans are
better...
New B.
2010-08-03 19:56:41 UTC
Permalink
On Tue, 3 Aug 2010 18:04:39 +0000 (UTC), TheChris
Post by TheChris
Post by New B.
On Tue, 3 Aug 2010 12:48:40 +0000 (UTC), TheChris
Post by TheChris
Post by TheChris
Never got it... Posted dozens of things in here trying to make it
sound
Post by TheChris
good.
The solution, I traded it straight up for a next year 2210 (100
watts,
Post by TheChris
loop, reverb, split-channel)
THAT'S what a Marshall amp should sound like! IMO - sounds 1,000
times
Post by TheChris
better than my 2204. My opinion...
Jim - we've had this discussion for years.... You're always pushing
the
Post by New B.
Post by TheChris
Mullards.... My point is... I can't imagine it changing the character
of
Post by New B.
Post by TheChris
the amp that much. Over the course of my 20 year ownership, I must
have
Post by New B.
Post by TheChris
changed out tubes dozens of times... It never made a real difference.
I
Post by New B.
Post by TheChris
had it worked on by amp builders - no difference.
My point is.... I have had 30 other amps in my lifetime - Fenders,
Peaveys, Silvertones, Laneys, Randalls, Guilds, etc, etc.. ALL of them
were more responsive and less annoying than mine.
Having had the same issue with a JCM900 this weekend - amps that were
rented for Bad Company... I think I can safely say that I just don't
like Marshalls as much as I thought I should:)
From what I've gathered from reading the Marshall forum, and other
sources, Marshalls come in three flavors.
Great, Mediocre, and Crappy.
Some Mediocre can be tweaked to Good.
Crappy ones either need a rebuild, or a trash bin.
What is really curious on the Marshall forum is that those with
EL-34 want to convert to 6550s; and those with 6550s want to convert
to EL-34s.
Sounds like a case for getting two amps to me, one of each.
As I said in another thread - I traded my 2204 for a 2210 - the model
that Matthias Jabbs uses (Scorpions). It was INSTANTLY better sounding.
When I did the trade - I plugged my head into a cab and played - he
plugged his head into the same cab and played. I almost thought I lost
the trade when he started playing - but, he seemed to like its 'lack of
gain and harmonics' :)
Dude - I bought a Carvin Legacy 100 for $400 within a week of that
trade. It SMOKES the Marshall in EVERY department...and the cleans are
better...
Gonna be keeping my eyes out for one.

Is there a 50W model ?
How does the sound compare ?

What power tubes ?
TheChris
2010-08-03 22:53:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by New B.
On Tue, 3 Aug 2010 18:04:39 +0000 (UTC), TheChris
Post by TheChris
Post by New B.
On Tue, 3 Aug 2010 12:48:40 +0000 (UTC), TheChris
Post by TheChris
Post by TheChris
Never got it... Posted dozens of things in here trying to make it
sound
Post by TheChris
good.
The solution, I traded it straight up for a next year 2210 (100
watts,
Post by TheChris
loop, reverb, split-channel)
THAT'S what a Marshall amp should sound like! IMO - sounds 1,000
times
Post by TheChris
better than my 2204. My opinion...
Jim - we've had this discussion for years.... You're always pushing
the
Post by New B.
Post by TheChris
Mullards.... My point is... I can't imagine it changing the character
of
Post by New B.
Post by TheChris
the amp that much. Over the course of my 20 year ownership, I must
have
Post by New B.
Post by TheChris
changed out tubes dozens of times... It never made a real difference.
I
Post by New B.
Post by TheChris
had it worked on by amp builders - no difference.
My point is.... I have had 30 other amps in my lifetime - Fenders,
Peaveys, Silvertones, Laneys, Randalls, Guilds, etc, etc.. ALL of them
were more responsive and less annoying than mine.
Having had the same issue with a JCM900 this weekend - amps that were
rented for Bad Company... I think I can safely say that I just don't
like Marshalls as much as I thought I should:)
From what I've gathered from reading the Marshall forum, and other
sources, Marshalls come in three flavors.
Great, Mediocre, and Crappy.
Some Mediocre can be tweaked to Good.
Crappy ones either need a rebuild, or a trash bin.
What is really curious on the Marshall forum is that those with
EL-34 want to convert to 6550s; and those with 6550s want to convert
to EL-34s.
Sounds like a case for getting two amps to me, one of each.
As I said in another thread - I traded my 2204 for a 2210 - the model
that Matthias Jabbs uses (Scorpions). It was INSTANTLY better sounding.
When I did the trade - I plugged my head into a cab and played - he
plugged his head into the same cab and played. I almost thought I lost
the trade when he started playing - but, he seemed to like its 'lack of
gain and harmonics' :)
Dude - I bought a Carvin Legacy 100 for $400 within a week of that
trade. It SMOKES the Marshall in EVERY department...and the cleans are
better...
Gonna be keeping my eyes out for one.
Is there a 50W model ?
How does the sound compare ?
What power tubes ?
It's switchable between 50/100 - and the tubes are switchable between EL34's and
6550's..

The sound is just better... It's a Steve Vai design. Have you ever heard him sound
bad? :)
New B.
2010-08-03 23:45:59 UTC
Permalink
On Tue, 3 Aug 2010 22:53:25 +0000 (UTC), TheChris
Post by TheChris
Post by New B.
Post by TheChris
Dude - I bought a Carvin Legacy 100 for $400 within a week of that
trade. It SMOKES the Marshall in EVERY department...and the cleans are
better...
Gonna be keeping my eyes out for one.
Is there a 50W model ?
How does the sound compare ?
What power tubes ?
It's switchable between 50/100 - and the tubes are switchable between EL34's and
6550's..
Nice.
Post by TheChris
The sound is just better... It's a Steve Vai design. Have you ever heard him sound
bad? :)
Nope. Not even once.

Didn't know that Vai designed amps as well.
TheChris
2010-08-04 00:25:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by New B.
On Tue, 3 Aug 2010 22:53:25 +0000 (UTC), TheChris
Post by TheChris
Post by New B.
Post by TheChris
Dude - I bought a Carvin Legacy 100 for $400 within a week of that
trade. It SMOKES the Marshall in EVERY department...and the cleans are
better...
Gonna be keeping my eyes out for one.
Is there a 50W model ?
How does the sound compare ?
What power tubes ?
It's switchable between 50/100 - and the tubes are switchable between EL34's and
6550's..
Nice.
Post by TheChris
The sound is just better... It's a Steve Vai design. Have you ever heard him sound
bad? :)
Nope. Not even once.
Didn't know that Vai designed amps as well.
http://www.vai.com/Machines/legacy.html
Rufus
2010-08-04 00:57:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by TheChris
Post by New B.
On Tue, 3 Aug 2010 18:04:39 +0000 (UTC), TheChris
Post by TheChris
Post by New B.
On Tue, 3 Aug 2010 12:48:40 +0000 (UTC), TheChris
As I said in another thread - I traded my 2204 for a 2210 - the model
that Matthias Jabbs uses (Scorpions). It was INSTANTLY better sounding.
When I did the trade - I plugged my head into a cab and played - he
plugged his head into the same cab and played. I almost thought I lost
the trade when he started playing - but, he seemed to like its 'lack of
gain and harmonics' :)
Dude - I bought a Carvin Legacy 100 for $400 within a week of that
trade. It SMOKES the Marshall in EVERY department...and the cleans are
better...
Gonna be keeping my eyes out for one.
Is there a 50W model ?
How does the sound compare ?
What power tubes ?
It's switchable between 50/100 - and the tubes are switchable between EL34's and
6550's..
The sound is just better... It's a Steve Vai design. Have you ever heard him sound
bad? :)
You need to watch out with a Carvin amp switching the power out between
50/100 watts - I have an XV-112 EVM12L loaded combo that I used to run
in 50 watt more for some time. Then I started using it in 100 watt
setting when playing with others and I found the tube had aged
differentially - when an older tube went it took all the others down
with it. Pretty sure the way that switch works is to just take two
tubes out of the loop - I only run my Carvin amp(s) at full power rating
now.

I still have that XV-112, though it's in need of a bit of attention -
possibly just a new standby switch, and a couple mods I'd like to look
into. I also have two V3s - one loaded with stock EL34 Groove Tubes,
and the other loaded with JJ 6V6s. I love my V3s, and run them in a
stereo split as two half-stacks. A Fulltone TTE does the splitting.
--
- Rufus
TheChris
2010-08-04 18:26:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rufus
Post by TheChris
Post by New B.
On Tue, 3 Aug 2010 18:04:39 +0000 (UTC), TheChris
Post by TheChris
Post by New B.
On Tue, 3 Aug 2010 12:48:40 +0000 (UTC), TheChris
As I said in another thread - I traded my 2204 for a 2210 - the model
that Matthias Jabbs uses (Scorpions). It was INSTANTLY better sounding.
When I did the trade - I plugged my head into a cab and played - he
plugged his head into the same cab and played. I almost thought I lost
the trade when he started playing - but, he seemed to like its 'lack of
gain and harmonics' :)
Dude - I bought a Carvin Legacy 100 for $400 within a week of that
trade. It SMOKES the Marshall in EVERY department...and the cleans are
better...
Gonna be keeping my eyes out for one.
Is there a 50W model ?
How does the sound compare ?
What power tubes ?
It's switchable between 50/100 - and the tubes are switchable between EL34's and
6550's..
The sound is just better... It's a Steve Vai design. Have you ever heard him sound
bad? :)
You need to watch out with a Carvin amp switching the power out between
50/100 watts - I have an XV-112 EVM12L loaded combo that I used to run
in 50 watt more for some time. Then I started using it in 100 watt
setting when playing with others and I found the tube had aged
differentially - when an older tube went it took all the others down
with it. Pretty sure the way that switch works is to just take two
tubes out of the loop - I only run my Carvin amp(s) at full power rating
now.
I still have that XV-112, though it's in need of a bit of attention -
possibly just a new standby switch, and a couple mods I'd like to look
into. I also have two V3s - one loaded with stock EL34 Groove Tubes,
and the other loaded with JJ 6V6s. I love my V3s, and run them in a
stereo split as two half-stacks. A Fulltone TTE does the splitting.
I had heard that.... Typically, I use it at 50, but I'm starting to mix
it up some more...
Rufus
2010-08-04 18:48:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by TheChris
Post by Rufus
Post by TheChris
Post by New B.
On Tue, 3 Aug 2010 18:04:39 +0000 (UTC), TheChris
It's switchable between 50/100 - and the tubes are switchable between
EL34's and
Post by Rufus
Post by TheChris
6550's..
The sound is just better... It's a Steve Vai design. Have you ever
heard him sound
Post by Rufus
Post by TheChris
bad? :)
You need to watch out with a Carvin amp switching the power out
between
Post by Rufus
50/100 watts - I have an XV-112 EVM12L loaded combo that I used to run
in 50 watt more for some time. Then I started using it in 100 watt
setting when playing with others and I found the tube had aged
differentially - when an older tube went it took all the others down
with it. Pretty sure the way that switch works is to just take two
tubes out of the loop - I only run my Carvin amp(s) at full power
rating
Post by Rufus
now.
I still have that XV-112, though it's in need of a bit of attention -
possibly just a new standby switch, and a couple mods I'd like to look
into. I also have two V3s - one loaded with stock EL34 Groove Tubes,
and the other loaded with JJ 6V6s. I love my V3s, and run them in a
stereo split as two half-stacks. A Fulltone TTE does the splitting.
I had heard that.... Typically, I use it at 50, but I'm starting to mix
it up some more...
Yeah...that's what I used to do. Now that I've blown a set of tubes I
won't use mine at the 50 setting ever again. One of the things I like
about the V3 over the Legacy is how good the V3 sounds at lower volume
settings - I can still dial in enough gain to do controllable feedback
and sustain even at bedroom volume levels, even set to 100. I can't
even throttle my XV-112 back as nicely...

That was a huge surprise - I bought my first V3 on price point alone. I
could use my full 8x12 stack as a bedroom amp if I wanted to - and still
have the power to crank it when I want to.
--
- Rufus
Ryan Sheeler
2010-08-23 02:26:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by TheChris
Post by Rufus
Post by TheChris
Post by New B.
On Tue, 3 Aug 2010 18:04:39 +0000 (UTC), TheChris
It's switchable between 50/100 - and the tubes are switchable between
EL34's and
Post by Rufus
Post by TheChris
6550's..
The sound is just better... It's a Steve Vai design. Have you ever
heard him sound
Post by Rufus
Post by TheChris
bad? :)
You need to watch out with a Carvin amp switching the power out
between
Post by Rufus
50/100 watts - I have an XV-112 EVM12L loaded combo that I used to run
in 50 watt more for some time.  Then I started using it in 100 watt
setting when playing with others and I found the tube had aged
differentially - when an older tube went it took all the others down
with it.  Pretty sure the way that switch works is to just take two
tubes out of the loop - I only run my Carvin amp(s) at full power
rating
Post by Rufus
  now.
I still have that XV-112, though it's in need of a bit of attention -
possibly just a new standby switch, and a couple mods I'd like to look
into.  I also have two V3s - one loaded with stock EL34 Groove Tubes,
and the other loaded with JJ 6V6s.  I love my V3s, and run them in a
stereo split as two half-stacks.  A Fulltone TTE does the splitting.
I had heard that.... Typically, I use it at 50, but I'm starting to mix
it up some more...
Yeah...that's what I used to do.  Now that I've blown a set of tubes I
won't use mine at the 50 setting ever again.  One of the things I like
about the V3 over the Legacy is how good the V3 sounds at lower volume
settings - I can still dial in enough gain to do controllable feedback
and sustain even at bedroom volume levels, even set to 100.  I can't
even throttle my XV-112 back as nicely...
That was a huge surprise - I bought my first V3 on price point alone.  I
could use my full 8x12 stack as a bedroom amp if I wanted to - and still
have the power to crank it when I want to.
--
      - Rufus
FYI: getting back to my original topic. Curt emailed me back and
said he used the HOLD function on his Boss DD3 to approximate the
Univox "dive" at the end or Eruption. I haven't quite got it to work
on my DD6 but I'm getting closer...

Jim
2010-08-03 20:02:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by TheChris
Post by New B.
On Tue, 3 Aug 2010 12:48:40 +0000 (UTC), TheChris
Post by TheChris
Post by TheChris
Never got it... Posted dozens of things in here trying to make it
sound
Post by TheChris
good.
The solution, I traded it straight up for a next year 2210 (100
watts,
Post by TheChris
loop, reverb, split-channel)
THAT'S what a Marshall amp should sound like! IMO - sounds 1,000
times
Post by TheChris
better than my 2204. My opinion...
Jim - we've had this discussion for years.... You're always pushing
the
Post by New B.
Post by TheChris
Mullards.... My point is... I can't imagine it changing the character
of
Post by New B.
Post by TheChris
the amp that much. Over the course of my 20 year ownership, I must
have
Post by New B.
Post by TheChris
changed out tubes dozens of times... It never made a real difference.
I
Post by New B.
Post by TheChris
had it worked on by amp builders - no difference.
My point is.... I have had 30 other amps in my lifetime - Fenders,
Peaveys, Silvertones, Laneys, Randalls, Guilds, etc, etc.. ALL of them
were more responsive and less annoying than mine.
Having had the same issue with a JCM900 this weekend - amps that were
rented for Bad Company... I think I can safely say that I just don't
like Marshalls as much as I thought I should:)
From what I've gathered from reading the Marshall forum, and other
sources, Marshalls come in three flavors.
Great, Mediocre, and Crappy.
Some Mediocre can be tweaked to Good.
Crappy ones either need a rebuild, or a trash bin.
What is really curious on the Marshall forum is that those with
EL-34 want to convert to 6550s; and those with 6550s want to convert
to EL-34s.
Sounds like a case for getting two amps to me, one of each.
As I said in another thread - I traded my 2204 for a 2210 - the model
that Matthias Jabbs uses (Scorpions). It was INSTANTLY better sounding.
When I did the trade - I plugged my head into a cab and played - he
plugged his head into the same cab and played. I almost thought I lost
the trade when he started playing - but, he seemed to like its 'lack of
gain and harmonics' :)
Dude - I bought a Carvin Legacy 100 for $400 within a week of that
trade. It SMOKES the Marshall in EVERY department...and the cleans are
better...
Not sure what pickups were used, but 2204's sound better with humbuckers
or active single coil types. ...or with some sort of cleanish boost. I
sometimes use a gray circuit DOD 250 in front of mine to get a grittier
tone.

The beauty of a GOOD 2204 is the simplicity of the circuit. There's
really not much under the hood. When you plug into the "High
Sensitivity" side, you're just adding another half of a 12AX7. The GOOD
ones ran tubes at lower voltages, for more of a "brown sound." The good
ones did NOT have effects loops. NO SAND (unlike most marshalls). No
reverb. Built for EL34 (and modified for US market). No channel
switching. And in such a circuit, the subtleties of tubes can be heard.
...and they just WORK with Mullards.
New B.
2010-08-03 20:20:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jim
Post by TheChris
As I said in another thread - I traded my 2204 for a 2210 - the model
that Matthias Jabbs uses (Scorpions). It was INSTANTLY better sounding.
When I did the trade - I plugged my head into a cab and played - he
plugged his head into the same cab and played. I almost thought I lost
the trade when he started playing - but, he seemed to like its 'lack of
gain and harmonics' :)
Dude - I bought a Carvin Legacy 100 for $400 within a week of that
trade. It SMOKES the Marshall in EVERY department...and the cleans are
better...
Not sure what pickups were used, but 2204's sound better with humbuckers
or active single coil types. ...or with some sort of cleanish boost. I
sometimes use a gray circuit DOD 250 in front of mine to get a grittier
tone.
The beauty of a GOOD 2204 is the simplicity of the circuit. There's
really not much under the hood. When you plug into the "High
Sensitivity" side, you're just adding another half of a 12AX7. The GOOD
ones ran tubes at lower voltages, for more of a "brown sound." The good
ones did NOT have effects loops. NO SAND (unlike most marshalls). No
reverb. Built for EL34 (and modified for US market). No channel
switching. And in such a circuit, the subtleties of tubes can be heard.
...and they just WORK with Mullards.
Yep, my '81 2204 is just like that.
Bare bones, good tones.

Hey Jim, which resistor did you piggy back ?

You didn't have to change anything else ?

I would try that.
Jim
2010-08-04 02:23:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by New B.
Post by Jim
Post by TheChris
As I said in another thread - I traded my 2204 for a 2210 - the model
that Matthias Jabbs uses (Scorpions). It was INSTANTLY better sounding.
When I did the trade - I plugged my head into a cab and played - he
plugged his head into the same cab and played. I almost thought I lost
the trade when he started playing - but, he seemed to like its 'lack of
gain and harmonics' :)
Dude - I bought a Carvin Legacy 100 for $400 within a week of that
trade. It SMOKES the Marshall in EVERY department...and the cleans are
better...
Not sure what pickups were used, but 2204's sound better with humbuckers
or active single coil types. ...or with some sort of cleanish boost. I
sometimes use a gray circuit DOD 250 in front of mine to get a grittier
tone.
The beauty of a GOOD 2204 is the simplicity of the circuit. There's
really not much under the hood. When you plug into the "High
Sensitivity" side, you're just adding another half of a 12AX7. The GOOD
ones ran tubes at lower voltages, for more of a "brown sound." The good
ones did NOT have effects loops. NO SAND (unlike most marshalls). No
reverb. Built for EL34 (and modified for US market). No channel
switching. And in such a circuit, the subtleties of tubes can be heard.
...and they just WORK with Mullards.
Yep, my '81 2204 is just like that.
Bare bones, good tones.
Hey Jim, which resistor did you piggy back ?
It's the resistor right after the bias trim pot. But the best value
would depend on how your tubes bias up, and whether you're trying to
kill two stones with one bird and get it to accept both types of tubes.

If you can find a shop that sells decent tubes, the added cost should be
minimal. If you want to DIY, see my voltage warning below.

If your amp doesn't have updated filter caps, it's time to see a tech
anyway. It doesn't pay to wait until a problem happens.
Post by New B.
You didn't have to change anything else ?
It's not necessary to change anything other than bias voltage range.
The UK amp also had the NFB feed on a different output tap. But that's
not a "necessary" change. I didn't mess with that part because I wasn't
sure what tube compliment I'd prefer.
Post by New B.
I would try that.
Make SURE that you know the precautions. You would be working on a live
circuit with potentially LETHAL voltages. But it's not hard at all to
change a resistor or two to change the voltage swing.
New B.
2010-08-05 19:28:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jim
Post by New B.
Post by Jim
Post by TheChris
As I said in another thread - I traded my 2204 for a 2210 - the model
that Matthias Jabbs uses (Scorpions). It was INSTANTLY better sounding.
When I did the trade - I plugged my head into a cab and played - he
plugged his head into the same cab and played. I almost thought I lost
the trade when he started playing - but, he seemed to like its 'lack of
gain and harmonics' :)
Dude - I bought a Carvin Legacy 100 for $400 within a week of that
trade. It SMOKES the Marshall in EVERY department...and the cleans are
better...
Not sure what pickups were used, but 2204's sound better with humbuckers
or active single coil types. ...or with some sort of cleanish boost. I
sometimes use a gray circuit DOD 250 in front of mine to get a grittier
tone.
The beauty of a GOOD 2204 is the simplicity of the circuit. There's
really not much under the hood. When you plug into the "High
Sensitivity" side, you're just adding another half of a 12AX7. The GOOD
ones ran tubes at lower voltages, for more of a "brown sound." The good
ones did NOT have effects loops. NO SAND (unlike most marshalls). No
reverb. Built for EL34 (and modified for US market). No channel
switching. And in such a circuit, the subtleties of tubes can be heard.
...and they just WORK with Mullards.
Yep, my '81 2204 is just like that.
Bare bones, good tones.
Hey Jim, which resistor did you piggy back ?
It's the resistor right after the bias trim pot. But the best value
would depend on how your tubes bias up, and whether you're trying to
kill two stones with one bird and get it to accept both types of tubes.
If you can find a shop that sells decent tubes, the added cost should be
minimal. If you want to DIY, see my voltage warning below.
If your amp doesn't have updated filter caps, it's time to see a tech
anyway. It doesn't pay to wait until a problem happens.
Post by New B.
You didn't have to change anything else ?
It's not necessary to change anything other than bias voltage range.
The UK amp also had the NFB feed on a different output tap. But that's
not a "necessary" change. I didn't mess with that part because I wasn't
sure what tube compliment I'd prefer.
Post by New B.
I would try that.
Make SURE that you know the precautions. You would be working on a live
circuit with potentially LETHAL voltages. But it's not hard at all to
change a resistor or two to change the voltage swing.
OK, I will Ping you when ready.
It may be a while though, other things such as life, you know...

Am familiar with the lethal voltage.
TheChris
2010-08-03 22:56:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jim
Post by TheChris
Post by New B.
On Tue, 3 Aug 2010 12:48:40 +0000 (UTC), TheChris
Post by TheChris
Post by TheChris
Never got it... Posted dozens of things in here trying to make it
sound
Post by TheChris
good.
The solution, I traded it straight up for a next year 2210 (100
watts,
Post by TheChris
loop, reverb, split-channel)
THAT'S what a Marshall amp should sound like! IMO - sounds 1,000
times
Post by TheChris
better than my 2204. My opinion...
Jim - we've had this discussion for years.... You're always pushing
the
Post by New B.
Post by TheChris
Mullards.... My point is... I can't imagine it changing the character
of
Post by New B.
Post by TheChris
the amp that much. Over the course of my 20 year ownership, I must
have
Post by New B.
Post by TheChris
changed out tubes dozens of times... It never made a real difference.
I
Post by New B.
Post by TheChris
had it worked on by amp builders - no difference.
My point is.... I have had 30 other amps in my lifetime - Fenders,
Peaveys, Silvertones, Laneys, Randalls, Guilds, etc, etc.. ALL of them
were more responsive and less annoying than mine.
Having had the same issue with a JCM900 this weekend - amps that were
rented for Bad Company... I think I can safely say that I just don't
like Marshalls as much as I thought I should:)
From what I've gathered from reading the Marshall forum, and other
sources, Marshalls come in three flavors.
Great, Mediocre, and Crappy.
Some Mediocre can be tweaked to Good.
Crappy ones either need a rebuild, or a trash bin.
What is really curious on the Marshall forum is that those with
EL-34 want to convert to 6550s; and those with 6550s want to convert
to EL-34s.
Sounds like a case for getting two amps to me, one of each.
As I said in another thread - I traded my 2204 for a 2210 - the model
that Matthias Jabbs uses (Scorpions). It was INSTANTLY better sounding.
When I did the trade - I plugged my head into a cab and played - he
plugged his head into the same cab and played. I almost thought I lost
the trade when he started playing - but, he seemed to like its 'lack of
gain and harmonics' :)
Dude - I bought a Carvin Legacy 100 for $400 within a week of that
trade. It SMOKES the Marshall in EVERY department...and the cleans are
better...
Not sure what pickups were used, but 2204's sound better with humbuckers
or active single coil types. ...or with some sort of cleanish boost. I
sometimes use a gray circuit DOD 250 in front of mine to get a grittier
tone.
The beauty of a GOOD 2204 is the simplicity of the circuit. There's
really not much under the hood. When you plug into the "High
Sensitivity" side, you're just adding another half of a 12AX7. The GOOD
ones ran tubes at lower voltages, for more of a "brown sound." The good
ones did NOT have effects loops. NO SAND (unlike most marshalls). No
reverb. Built for EL34 (and modified for US market). No channel
switching. And in such a circuit, the subtleties of tubes can be heard.
...and they just WORK with Mullards.
I have 16 guitars now.... Over the course of my 20 year ownership, I'm sure I
plugged 100 different guitars into it... Mostly high output Duncan Distortions or
Dimarzio Supers. Had a DOD 250, and an original Rat, and an LPB-1, and an LPB-2.

It just wasn't a good amp for me... I preferred my solid state Peavey's to it...
At least those had usable tone settings..
Jim
2010-08-03 19:56:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jim
Post by Jim
Post by Ryan Sheeler
Post by Jim
Post by New B.
Post by Jim
Post by New B.
Post by Jim
Post by New B.
On Fri, 30 Jul 2010 03:12:54 +0000 (UTC), TheChris
Post by TheChris
Post by New B.
On Thu, 29 Jul 2010 09:47:38 -0700 (PDT), Ryan Sheeler
Post by Ryan Sheeler
Hey all,
I've been playing around with my BOSS DD6 trying to get the
growl/
Post by Jim
Post by New B.
Post by Jim
Post by New B.
Post by Jim
Post by New B.
Post by TheChris
Post by New B.
Post by Ryan Sheeler
divebomb at the end of Eruption - but I haven't quite got
it.
Post by Jim
Post by Ryan Sheeler
I've
Post by Jim
Post by New B.
Post by Jim
Post by New B.
Post by Jim
Post by New B.
Post by TheChris
Post by New B.
Post by Ryan Sheeler
downloaded and tried a lot of settings that people have
tried
Post by Jim
Post by Ryan Sheeler
using a
Post by Jim
Post by New B.
Post by Jim
Post by New B.
Post by Jim
Post by New B.
Post by TheChris
Post by New B.
Post by Ryan Sheeler
DD3 and earlier Boss units, but I haven't been able to
duplicate that
Post by Jim
Post by New B.
Post by Jim
Post by New B.
Post by Jim
Post by New B.
Post by TheChris
Post by New B.
Post by Ryan Sheeler
sound with my DD6. Can anyone help? Thanks, Ry
You need to start with an old Marshall.
Check out: http://www.marshallforum.com
Do a search.
WEll, that won't get the delay sounds... I don't know if he
used
Post by Jim
Post by Ryan Sheeler
an
Post by Jim
Post by New B.
Post by Jim
Post by New B.
Post by Jim
Post by New B.
Post by TheChris
Echoplex there (a VERY distinctive sound) or relied on a high-
end studio
Post by Jim
Post by New B.
Post by Jim
Post by New B.
Post by Jim
Post by New B.
Post by TheChris
delay...
Eddies delay sounds are pretty heavily documented... He wasn't
using great
Post by Jim
Post by New B.
Post by Jim
Post by New B.
Post by Jim
Post by New B.
Post by TheChris
stuff - that's what made him so cool.
Remember, he used a Variac too... Are you trying to get his
guitar sound,
Post by Jim
Post by New B.
Post by Jim
Post by New B.
Post by Jim
Post by New B.
Post by TheChris
or the delay repeats?? Getting his guitar sound is like trying
to find the
Post by Jim
Post by New B.
Post by Jim
Post by New B.
Post by Jim
Post by New B.
Post by TheChris
fountain of youth....
Some say EVH used a variac some say he didn't.
The truth may never be known.
He most certainly did use a variac. HE even said that he did.
Although
Post by Jim
Post by New B.
Post by Jim
Post by New B.
Post by Jim
some of his comments about the use of a variac weren't accurate.
Some
Post by Jim
Post by New B.
Post by Jim
Post by New B.
Post by Jim
say that he intentionally misled people, others say he didn't
have
Post by Jim
Post by Ryan Sheeler
a
Post by Jim
Post by New B.
Post by Jim
Post by New B.
Post by Jim
complete understanding of the voltage issue. (In one interview,
he
Post by Jim
Post by New B.
Post by Jim
Post by New B.
Post by Jim
talked about cranking UP the voltage and melting down tubes. In
reality, you'd almost certainly pop the B+ fuse. But amps CAN
melt down
Post by Jim
Post by New B.
Post by Jim
Post by New B.
Post by Jim
tubes: http://www.timeelect.com/6550a-ex.htm ).
I recall a reputable source stating that it was a Super Lead on
a
Post by Jim
Post by Ryan Sheeler
variac
Post by Jim
Post by New B.
Post by Jim
Post by New B.
Post by Jim
at LOWER than line voltage, into a 20 ohm dummy load on the 8
ohm
Post by Jim
Post by Ryan Sheeler
tap,
Post by Jim
Post by New B.
Post by Jim
Post by New B.
Post by Jim
with Sylvania 6CA7. Simple voltage divider to lower the level,
then
Post by Jim
Post by New B.
Post by Jim
Post by New B.
Post by Jim
typically he did time based effects and harmonizer AFTER the
Marshall,
Post by Jim
Post by New B.
Post by Jim
Post by New B.
Post by Jim
then solid state power amp to boost level back up, then
speakers.
Post by Jim
Post by Ryan Sheeler
Post by Jim
Post by New B.
Post by Jim
Post by New B.
Post by Jim
Post by New B.
There are articles that report that he used
an MXR phaser as the first pedal in the fx chain.
I should say that I don't chase his tone. My info is strictly
from a
Post by Jim
Post by New B.
Post by Jim
Post by New B.
Post by Jim
tech curiosity. But I've read the same. I say "typically"
above,
Post by Jim
Post by Ryan Sheeler
Post by Jim
Post by New B.
Post by Jim
Post by New B.
Post by Jim
because sometimes he used time based effects before the amp.
But the basics are fairly well documented. Super Lead on variac
at
Post by Jim
Post by New B.
Post by Jim
Post by New B.
Post by Jim
lower voltages, Sylvania 6CA7...
I don't dispute what you have said/read but am saying that
others have said the opposite regarding the Variac.
His use of the variac is so well documented that I wasn't aware
that
Post by Jim
Post by Ryan Sheeler
it
Post by Jim
Post by New B.
Post by Jim
was a real controversy.
It's probably just a controversy amongst the 'cork sniffer' crowd.
YKWIM.
Eruption is a nice piece of guitar work, and good amp sound, but
really I have no desire to replicate it.
YMMV.
Post by Jim
Post by New B.
Some say that EVH intentionally mislead during interviews.
I don't want to chase anybodies tone, prefer to persue my own.
Some say that the 6CA7 is the bomb.
To me it's gotta be the combination of
the valves, circuit, speakers, cab, and the players touch.
IOW you could put together the exact same rig and not sound
like Eddie. Marshalls are notorious fortheir 'variability' from
amp to amp of the same model.
When the amps were newer, they were much more uniform. There was
a
Post by Jim
Post by Ryan Sheeler
10%
Post by Jim
Post by New B.
Post by Jim
tolerance on resistor values, 20% on some capacitors. But the
differences you hear today were often not there when the amp was
built.
Post by Jim
Post by New B.
Post by Jim
Resistor values often drift, especially carbon comp. Electrolytic
capacitors dry up, other types can become leaky. Tubes age, and
get
Post by Jim
Post by Ryan Sheeler
Post by Jim
Post by New B.
Post by Jim
replaced with different types.
But some of that "notorious variability" is no doubt people that
don't
Post by Jim
Post by New B.
Post by Jim
know that circuits changed at certain times, keeping the same
model
Post by Jim
Post by Ryan Sheeler
Post by Jim
Post by New B.
Post by Jim
number. It's painfully obvious fact that many guys don't even
know
Post by Jim
Post by Ryan Sheeler
that
Post by Jim
Post by New B.
Post by Jim
there are different JCM 800 models. Let alone changes that happen
within a model.
So true.
As an owner of an early master volume one channel JCM 800 2204
head,
Post by Jim
Post by Ryan Sheeler
I
Post by Jim
Post by New B.
am well aware of circuit changes, and the so called 'cross-over'
*models* where parts in stock were used first and there is quite a
bit
Post by Jim
Post by New B.
of inconsistency even among new amps of varying models.
Do you happen to know the B+ on the power tubes?
I own a JMP 2204. Marshall changed the voltage on the power
transformer
Post by Jim
when they moved to the JCM 800 model. The JMP runs under 400V on
the
Post by Jim
Post by Ryan Sheeler
Post by Jim
output plates (and lower voltages to all other plates). Not unlike
using a variac!!!
If you don't know the B+ value, ask your tech to write it down for
you
Post by Jim
Post by Ryan Sheeler
Post by Jim
the next time you change power tubes (or have the bias checked).
I've
Post by Jim
Post by Ryan Sheeler
Post by Jim
heard from owners that have under 400V, and from those that see
around
Post by Jim
Post by Ryan Sheeler
450V.
Post by Jim
Post by New B.
Hell even the combos are different from the heads of the same model
in some cases.
Don't get me wrong, I love my Marshall, but am no Marshall hoarder.
One good one is enough for me.
I only own one Marshall, also. But I own too many Fenders at the
moment. That's a different story. If I ever get off of my butt and
finish up restoration on my three Twins, I'll be able to make a
choice
Post by Jim
Post by Ryan Sheeler
Post by Jim
and sell two of them. I also have a Super and an EARLY silverface
Bandmaster. And lots of other amps. But my favorite, if I could
only
Post by Jim
Post by Ryan Sheeler
Post by Jim
keep one? The 2204.
I had a 2204 (1987) for over 20 years... Easily, one of the worst
sounding amps I ever owned. I kept it because everybody said I should
keep it and that it was 'the amp'....
You're illustrating one of my points!: The 1987 version of the 2204
is
Post by Jim
VERY different than my 2204. Higher voltages. And didn't that one
have
Post by Jim
an effects loop? Less power supply filtration. And were you using
real
Post by Jim
Mullards in V1, V2 and V3? With decent EL34 power tubes that were
matched and biased "a bit warm?"
I have absolutely no doubt that your 2204 sounded COMPLETELY different
from my 2204.
Then there's the fact that I like to push a vintage Hiwatt/Fane 4x12
with it, because it's an inefficient cab that's on the darker side of
the tone spectrum. Works extremely well with that amp because you can
get power tube distortion MUCH earlier than with a typical 4x12
(because
Post by Jim
it takes way more power to get the same volume), and because the
warm/dark voicing works well with preamp distortion for when you just
can't crank the power amp.
Post by Ryan Sheeler
Never got it... Posted dozens of things in here trying to make it
sound
Post by Jim
Post by Ryan Sheeler
good.
The solution, I traded it straight up for a next year 2210 (100
watts,
Post by Jim
Post by Ryan Sheeler
loop, reverb, split-channel)
THAT'S what a Marshall amp should sound like! IMO - sounds 1,000
times
Post by Jim
Post by Ryan Sheeler
better than my 2204. My opinion...
Jim - we've had this discussion for years.... You're always pushing the
Mullards.... My point is... I can't imagine it changing the character of
the amp that much. Over the course of my 20 year ownership, I must have
changed out tubes dozens of times... It never made a real difference. I
had it worked on by amp builders - no difference.
My point is.... I have had 30 other amps in my lifetime - Fenders,
Peaveys, Silvertones, Laneys, Randalls, Guilds, etc, etc.. ALL of them
were more responsive and less annoying than mine.
Having had the same issue with a JCM900 this weekend - amps that were
rented for Bad Company... I think I can safely say that I just don't
like Marshalls as much as I thought I should:)
I'm not saying you should've kept it. Or should've fed it Mullards
(although I have no doubt but that you would've heard some improvement).

I'm saying that while it may share the 2204 model number, it was a VERY
different amp from my JMP 2204.
New B.
2010-08-01 02:56:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jim
Post by New B.
As an owner of an early master volume one channel JCM 800 2204 head, I
am well aware of circuit changes, and the so called 'cross-over'
*models* where parts in stock were used first and there is quite a bit
of inconsistency even among new amps of varying models.
Do you happen to know the B+ on the power tubes?
I own a JMP 2204. Marshall changed the voltage on the power transformer
when they moved to the JCM 800 model. The JMP runs under 400V on the
output plates (and lower voltages to all other plates). Not unlike
using a variac!!!
If you don't know the B+ value, ask your tech to write it down for you
the next time you change power tubes (or have the bias checked). I've
heard from owners that have under 400V, and from those that see around 450V.
I do have a pair of JJ KT-88s that have been waiting to be installed.
My 2204 came with 6550As (GE at that ! :-)

Have the Weber Bias-Rite, so will report back when I change the power
tubes.

and new Pre valves.

The existing pre valves are:
V1,2,3 ECC83

POLAMP
ECC83
001090
Made In Poland

It's a 1981
Post by Jim
Post by New B.
Hell even the combos are different from the heads of the same model
in some cases.
Don't get me wrong, I love my Marshall, but am no Marshall hoarder.
One good one is enough for me.
I only own one Marshall, also. But I own too many Fenders at the
moment. That's a different story. If I ever get off of my butt and
finish up restoration on my three Twins, I'll be able to make a choice
and sell two of them. I also have a Super and an EARLY silverface
Bandmaster. And lots of other amps. But my favorite, if I could only
keep one? The 2204.
Is yours EL-34 equipped, or 6550 ?

What cab do you have ?
Would have to look at mine again.
Took the back off once, but didn't take pictures. Pshaw.
Jim
2010-08-02 21:02:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by New B.
Post by Jim
Post by New B.
As an owner of an early master volume one channel JCM 800 2204 head, I
am well aware of circuit changes, and the so called 'cross-over'
*models* where parts in stock were used first and there is quite a bit
of inconsistency even among new amps of varying models.
Do you happen to know the B+ on the power tubes?
I own a JMP 2204. Marshall changed the voltage on the power transformer
when they moved to the JCM 800 model. The JMP runs under 400V on the
output plates (and lower voltages to all other plates). Not unlike
using a variac!!!
If you don't know the B+ value, ask your tech to write it down for you
the next time you change power tubes (or have the bias checked). I've
heard from owners that have under 400V, and from those that see around 450V.
I do have a pair of JJ KT-88s that have been waiting to be installed.
My 2204 came with 6550As (GE at that ! :-)
I bought mine new in 1981. The GE 6550A are KILLER tubes, for what they
do. They are very powerful, and will last far longer than the vast
majority of EL34, and the current 6550 wanna-bes. But when I finally
wore down the last remaining original GE a few years back, I made the
switch to JJ E34L. They are still in good shape, because I just don't
put in the hours of high volume play.
Post by New B.
Have the Weber Bias-Rite, so will report back when I change the power
tubes.
and new Pre valves.
V1,2,3 ECC83
POLAMP
ECC83
001090
Made In Poland
It's a 1981
My JMP was built in 1980 and purchased (by me) in '81. It came with
Tungsram preamp tubes.
Post by New B.
Post by Jim
Post by New B.
Hell even the combos are different from the heads of the same model
in some cases.
Don't get me wrong, I love my Marshall, but am no Marshall hoarder.
One good one is enough for me.
I only own one Marshall, also. But I own too many Fenders at the
moment. That's a different story. If I ever get off of my butt and
finish up restoration on my three Twins, I'll be able to make a choice
and sell two of them. I also have a Super and an EARLY silverface
Bandmaster. And lots of other amps. But my favorite, if I could only
keep one? The 2204.
Is yours EL-34 equipped, or 6550 ?
Beat you to that answer, above. The GE 6550A gave more output, and a
more "metal" sounding distortion when they did crunch. The JJ E34L has
a bit more power and bottom end than most EL34, but still have the
spongier feel and earlier mids breakup.

For preamp tubes, I'm using Mullard ECC83 in V2 and V3, with a 17mm long
plate Mullard in V1. I think that tube is older than I am.
Post by New B.
What cab do you have ?
Several, but as I mentioned in the other 2204 sub thread, I prefer my
early '70's Hiwatt 4x12 with the purple back Fane ceramic speakers with
a stamped frame. Because they are inefficient, and on the warm/dark
side of the tone spectrum.
Post by New B.
Would have to look at mine again.
Took the back off once, but didn't take pictures. Pshaw.
New B.
2010-08-03 00:25:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jim
Post by New B.
Post by Jim
Post by New B.
As an owner of an early master volume one channel JCM 800 2204 head, I
am well aware of circuit changes, and the so called 'cross-over'
*models* where parts in stock were used first and there is quite a bit
of inconsistency even among new amps of varying models.
Do you happen to know the B+ on the power tubes?
I own a JMP 2204. Marshall changed the voltage on the power transformer
when they moved to the JCM 800 model. The JMP runs under 400V on the
output plates (and lower voltages to all other plates). Not unlike
using a variac!!!
If you don't know the B+ value, ask your tech to write it down for you
the next time you change power tubes (or have the bias checked). I've
heard from owners that have under 400V, and from those that see around 450V.
I do have a pair of JJ KT-88s that have been waiting to be installed.
My 2204 came with 6550As (GE at that ! :-)
I bought mine new in 1981. The GE 6550A are KILLER tubes, for what they
do. They are very powerful, and will last far longer than the vast
majority of EL34, and the current 6550 wanna-bes. But when I finally
wore down the last remaining original GE a few years back, I made the
switch to JJ E34L. They are still in good shape, because I just don't
put in the hours of high volume play.
Did you have to mod the amp to be able to use the EL-34s ?
Post by Jim
Post by New B.
Have the Weber Bias-Rite, so will report back when I change the power
tubes.
and new Pre valves.
V1,2,3 ECC83
POLAMP
ECC83
001090
Made In Poland
It's a 1981
My JMP was built in 1980 and purchased (by me) in '81. It came with
Tungsram preamp tubes.
Sweet, those are getting expensive.
Post by Jim
Post by New B.
Post by Jim
Post by New B.
Hell even the combos are different from the heads of the same model
in some cases.
Don't get me wrong, I love my Marshall, but am no Marshall hoarder.
One good one is enough for me.
I only own one Marshall, also. But I own too many Fenders at the
moment. That's a different story. If I ever get off of my butt and
finish up restoration on my three Twins, I'll be able to make a choice
and sell two of them. I also have a Super and an EARLY silverface
Bandmaster. And lots of other amps. But my favorite, if I could only
keep one? The 2204.
Is yours EL-34 equipped, or 6550 ?
Beat you to that answer, above. The GE 6550A gave more output, and a
more "metal" sounding distortion when they did crunch. The JJ E34L has
a bit more power and bottom end than most EL34, but still have the
spongier feel and earlier mids breakup.
Have a pair of the JJ EL 34s in the ourside sockets of my Mark iv
they sound nice.
Post by Jim
For preamp tubes, I'm using Mullard ECC83 in V2 and V3, with a 17mm long
plate Mullard in V1. I think that tube is older than I am.
Real Mullards ? WoW, nice.
Do you recommend a souce ?
Post by Jim
Post by New B.
What cab do you have ?
Several, but as I mentioned in the other 2204 sub thread, I prefer my
early '70's Hiwatt 4x12 with the purple back Fane ceramic speakers with
a stamped frame. Because they are inefficient, and on the warm/dark
side of the tone spectrum.
Post by New B.
Would have to look at mine again.
Took the back off once, but didn't take pictures. Pshaw.
Jim
2010-08-03 00:40:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by New B.
Post by Jim
Post by New B.
Post by Jim
Post by New B.
As an owner of an early master volume one channel JCM 800 2204 head, I
am well aware of circuit changes, and the so called 'cross-over'
*models* where parts in stock were used first and there is quite a bit
of inconsistency even among new amps of varying models.
Do you happen to know the B+ on the power tubes?
I own a JMP 2204. Marshall changed the voltage on the power transformer
when they moved to the JCM 800 model. The JMP runs under 400V on the
output plates (and lower voltages to all other plates). Not unlike
using a variac!!!
If you don't know the B+ value, ask your tech to write it down for you
the next time you change power tubes (or have the bias checked). I've
heard from owners that have under 400V, and from those that see around 450V.
I do have a pair of JJ KT-88s that have been waiting to be installed.
My 2204 came with 6550As (GE at that ! :-)
I bought mine new in 1981. The GE 6550A are KILLER tubes, for what they
do. They are very powerful, and will last far longer than the vast
majority of EL34, and the current 6550 wanna-bes. But when I finally
wore down the last remaining original GE a few years back, I made the
switch to JJ E34L. They are still in good shape, because I just don't
put in the hours of high volume play.
Did you have to mod the amp to be able to use the EL-34s ?
Yes, I modified the bias circuit. I found a single resistor that I
could piggy back (parallel) on top of another resistor and give me
enough bias voltage swing to handle the set of GE 6550A that were in it,
or the JJ E34L. I didn't bother moving the negative feedback tap.

I also put in new filter caps at that time. I think it could still have
the original bias cap and cathode bypass caps, I should check up on those.
Post by New B.
Post by Jim
Post by New B.
Have the Weber Bias-Rite, so will report back when I change the power
tubes.
and new Pre valves.
V1,2,3 ECC83
POLAMP
ECC83
001090
Made In Poland
It's a 1981
My JMP was built in 1980 and purchased (by me) in '81. It came with
Tungsram preamp tubes.
Sweet, those are getting expensive.
Post by Jim
Post by New B.
Post by Jim
Post by New B.
Hell even the combos are different from the heads of the same model
in some cases.
Don't get me wrong, I love my Marshall, but am no Marshall hoarder.
One good one is enough for me.
I only own one Marshall, also. But I own too many Fenders at the
moment. That's a different story. If I ever get off of my butt and
finish up restoration on my three Twins, I'll be able to make a choice
and sell two of them. I also have a Super and an EARLY silverface
Bandmaster. And lots of other amps. But my favorite, if I could only
keep one? The 2204.
Is yours EL-34 equipped, or 6550 ?
Beat you to that answer, above. The GE 6550A gave more output, and a
more "metal" sounding distortion when they did crunch. The JJ E34L has
a bit more power and bottom end than most EL34, but still have the
spongier feel and earlier mids breakup.
Have a pair of the JJ EL 34s in the ourside sockets of my Mark iv
they sound nice.
Post by Jim
For preamp tubes, I'm using Mullard ECC83 in V2 and V3, with a 17mm long
plate Mullard in V1. I think that tube is older than I am.
Real Mullards ? WoW, nice.
Do you recommend a souce ?
I played ebay roulette several years ago. Found others at the Brent
Jessee site, right before his prices went SKY HIGH. Others, I purchased
used gear just to get the tubes (a couple of reel to reels that I
thought might have Mullards -- and they did). I also purchased a very
sweet Harmon Kardon integrated amp just for the Telefunkens in it.
Re-sold it with "polished turds" a few years later when it became "more
desirable."

Pretty much beating the bushes and being in the right place at the right
time.

You won't catch me paying $50+ for preamp tubes! But gone are the days
that you could pick up used Mullards CHEAPER than something like a
Sovtek 12AX7 LPS.

Even my black plate RCA 6L6GC stash was put together by purchasing
untested used pulls off of ebay. I have a decent tester, and a bias
probe, and was able to put together several matched pairs of "used but
not used up" high dollar tubes. ...for much less than you could do it
for today. My reject rate was surprisingly low. Cost for those was
*significantly* less than what Winged C types go for now. In fact,
probably close to what JJ's sell for.
Post by New B.
Post by Jim
Post by New B.
What cab do you have ?
Several, but as I mentioned in the other 2204 sub thread, I prefer my
early '70's Hiwatt 4x12 with the purple back Fane ceramic speakers with
a stamped frame. Because they are inefficient, and on the warm/dark
side of the tone spectrum.
Post by New B.
Would have to look at mine again.
Took the back off once, but didn't take pictures. Pshaw.
New B.
2010-08-03 20:00:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jim
Post by New B.
Post by Jim
Post by New B.
Post by Jim
Post by New B.
As an owner of an early master volume one channel JCM 800 2204 head, I
am well aware of circuit changes, and the so called 'cross-over'
*models* where parts in stock were used first and there is quite a bit
of inconsistency even among new amps of varying models.
Do you happen to know the B+ on the power tubes?
I own a JMP 2204. Marshall changed the voltage on the power transformer
when they moved to the JCM 800 model. The JMP runs under 400V on the
output plates (and lower voltages to all other plates). Not unlike
using a variac!!!
If you don't know the B+ value, ask your tech to write it down for you
the next time you change power tubes (or have the bias checked). I've
heard from owners that have under 400V, and from those that see around 450V.
I do have a pair of JJ KT-88s that have been waiting to be installed.
My 2204 came with 6550As (GE at that ! :-)
I bought mine new in 1981. The GE 6550A are KILLER tubes, for what they
do. They are very powerful, and will last far longer than the vast
majority of EL34, and the current 6550 wanna-bes. But when I finally
wore down the last remaining original GE a few years back, I made the
switch to JJ E34L. They are still in good shape, because I just don't
put in the hours of high volume play.
Did you have to mod the amp to be able to use the EL-34s ?
Yes, I modified the bias circuit. I found a single resistor that I
could piggy back (parallel) on top of another resistor and give me
enough bias voltage swing to handle the set of GE 6550A that were in it,
or the JJ E34L. I didn't bother moving the negative feedback tap.
I also put in new filter caps at that time. I think it could still have
the original bias cap and cathode bypass caps, I should check up on those.
Post by New B.
Post by Jim
Post by New B.
Have the Weber Bias-Rite, so will report back when I change the power
tubes.
and new Pre valves.
V1,2,3 ECC83
POLAMP
ECC83
001090
Made In Poland
It's a 1981
My JMP was built in 1980 and purchased (by me) in '81. It came with
Tungsram preamp tubes.
Sweet, those are getting expensive.
Post by Jim
Post by New B.
Post by Jim
Post by New B.
Hell even the combos are different from the heads of the same model
in some cases.
Don't get me wrong, I love my Marshall, but am no Marshall hoarder.
One good one is enough for me.
I only own one Marshall, also. But I own too many Fenders at the
moment. That's a different story. If I ever get off of my butt and
finish up restoration on my three Twins, I'll be able to make a choice
and sell two of them. I also have a Super and an EARLY silverface
Bandmaster. And lots of other amps. But my favorite, if I could only
keep one? The 2204.
Is yours EL-34 equipped, or 6550 ?
Beat you to that answer, above. The GE 6550A gave more output, and a
more "metal" sounding distortion when they did crunch. The JJ E34L has
a bit more power and bottom end than most EL34, but still have the
spongier feel and earlier mids breakup.
Have a pair of the JJ EL 34s in the ourside sockets of my Mark iv
they sound nice.
Post by Jim
For preamp tubes, I'm using Mullard ECC83 in V2 and V3, with a 17mm long
plate Mullard in V1. I think that tube is older than I am.
Real Mullards ? WoW, nice.
Do you recommend a souce ?
I played ebay roulette several years ago. Found others at the Brent
Jessee site, right before his prices went SKY HIGH. Others, I purchased
used gear just to get the tubes (a couple of reel to reels that I
thought might have Mullards -- and they did). I also purchased a very
sweet Harmon Kardon integrated amp just for the Telefunkens in it.
Re-sold it with "polished turds" a few years later when it became "more
desirable."
Pretty much beating the bushes and being in the right place at the right
time.
You won't catch me paying $50+ for preamp tubes! But gone are the days
that you could pick up used Mullards CHEAPER than something like a
Sovtek 12AX7 LPS.
Even my black plate RCA 6L6GC stash was put together by purchasing
untested used pulls off of ebay. I have a decent tester, and a bias
probe, and was able to put together several matched pairs of "used but
not used up" high dollar tubes. ...for much less than you could do it
for today. My reject rate was surprisingly low. Cost for those was
*significantly* less than what Winged C types go for now. In fact,
probably close to what JJ's sell for.
Post by New B.
Post by Jim
Post by New B.
What cab do you have ?
Several, but as I mentioned in the other 2204 sub thread, I prefer my
early '70's Hiwatt 4x12 with the purple back Fane ceramic speakers with
a stamped frame. Because they are inefficient, and on the warm/dark
side of the tone spectrum.
Post by New B.
Would have to look at mine again.
Took the back off once, but didn't take pictures. Pshaw.
Good info there Jim,

Just missed out on an old organ out on the street.

The big trash man got it, and went to the landfill.

Drat !
Jim
2010-08-04 02:08:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by New B.
Post by Jim
Post by New B.
Post by Jim
Post by New B.
Post by Jim
Post by New B.
As an owner of an early master volume one channel JCM 800 2204 head, I
am well aware of circuit changes, and the so called 'cross-over'
*models* where parts in stock were used first and there is quite a bit
of inconsistency even among new amps of varying models.
Do you happen to know the B+ on the power tubes?
I own a JMP 2204. Marshall changed the voltage on the power transformer
when they moved to the JCM 800 model. The JMP runs under 400V on the
output plates (and lower voltages to all other plates). Not unlike
using a variac!!!
If you don't know the B+ value, ask your tech to write it down for you
the next time you change power tubes (or have the bias checked). I've
heard from owners that have under 400V, and from those that see around 450V.
I do have a pair of JJ KT-88s that have been waiting to be installed.
My 2204 came with 6550As (GE at that ! :-)
I bought mine new in 1981. The GE 6550A are KILLER tubes, for what they
do. They are very powerful, and will last far longer than the vast
majority of EL34, and the current 6550 wanna-bes. But when I finally
wore down the last remaining original GE a few years back, I made the
switch to JJ E34L. They are still in good shape, because I just don't
put in the hours of high volume play.
Did you have to mod the amp to be able to use the EL-34s ?
Yes, I modified the bias circuit. I found a single resistor that I
could piggy back (parallel) on top of another resistor and give me
enough bias voltage swing to handle the set of GE 6550A that were in it,
or the JJ E34L. I didn't bother moving the negative feedback tap.
I also put in new filter caps at that time. I think it could still have
the original bias cap and cathode bypass caps, I should check up on those.
Post by New B.
Post by Jim
Post by New B.
Have the Weber Bias-Rite, so will report back when I change the power
tubes.
and new Pre valves.
V1,2,3 ECC83
POLAMP
ECC83
001090
Made In Poland
It's a 1981
My JMP was built in 1980 and purchased (by me) in '81. It came with
Tungsram preamp tubes.
Sweet, those are getting expensive.
Post by Jim
Post by New B.
Post by Jim
Post by New B.
Hell even the combos are different from the heads of the same model
in some cases.
Don't get me wrong, I love my Marshall, but am no Marshall hoarder.
One good one is enough for me.
I only own one Marshall, also. But I own too many Fenders at the
moment. That's a different story. If I ever get off of my butt and
finish up restoration on my three Twins, I'll be able to make a choice
and sell two of them. I also have a Super and an EARLY silverface
Bandmaster. And lots of other amps. But my favorite, if I could only
keep one? The 2204.
Is yours EL-34 equipped, or 6550 ?
Beat you to that answer, above. The GE 6550A gave more output, and a
more "metal" sounding distortion when they did crunch. The JJ E34L has
a bit more power and bottom end than most EL34, but still have the
spongier feel and earlier mids breakup.
Have a pair of the JJ EL 34s in the ourside sockets of my Mark iv
they sound nice.
Post by Jim
For preamp tubes, I'm using Mullard ECC83 in V2 and V3, with a 17mm long
plate Mullard in V1. I think that tube is older than I am.
Real Mullards ? WoW, nice.
Do you recommend a souce ?
I played ebay roulette several years ago. Found others at the Brent
Jessee site, right before his prices went SKY HIGH. Others, I purchased
used gear just to get the tubes (a couple of reel to reels that I
thought might have Mullards -- and they did). I also purchased a very
sweet Harmon Kardon integrated amp just for the Telefunkens in it.
Re-sold it with "polished turds" a few years later when it became "more
desirable."
Pretty much beating the bushes and being in the right place at the right
time.
You won't catch me paying $50+ for preamp tubes! But gone are the days
that you could pick up used Mullards CHEAPER than something like a
Sovtek 12AX7 LPS.
Even my black plate RCA 6L6GC stash was put together by purchasing
untested used pulls off of ebay. I have a decent tester, and a bias
probe, and was able to put together several matched pairs of "used but
not used up" high dollar tubes. ...for much less than you could do it
for today. My reject rate was surprisingly low. Cost for those was
*significantly* less than what Winged C types go for now. In fact,
probably close to what JJ's sell for.
Post by New B.
Post by Jim
Post by New B.
What cab do you have ?
Several, but as I mentioned in the other 2204 sub thread, I prefer my
early '70's Hiwatt 4x12 with the purple back Fane ceramic speakers with
a stamped frame. Because they are inefficient, and on the warm/dark
side of the tone spectrum.
Post by New B.
Would have to look at mine again.
Took the back off once, but didn't take pictures. Pshaw.
Good info there Jim,
Just missed out on an old organ out on the street.
The big trash man got it, and went to the landfill.
Drat !
They are often loaded with 12AU7, but it's a shame it's gone. Many also
house RCA black plate 6L6GC! ...and good transformers.
New B.
2010-08-05 19:26:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jim
Post by New B.
Good info there Jim,
Just missed out on an old organ out on the street.
The big trash man got it, and went to the landfill.
Drat !
They are often loaded with 12AU7, but it's a shame it's gone. Many also
house RCA black plate 6L6GC! ...and good transformers.
Yeah, am still kicking myself.
Rufus
2010-07-30 05:43:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ryan Sheeler
Hey all,
I've been playing around with my BOSS DD6 trying to get the growl/
divebomb at the end of Eruption - but I haven't quite got it. I've
downloaded and tried a lot of settings that people have tried using a
DD3 and earlier Boss units, but I haven't been able to duplicate that
sound with my DD6. Can anyone help? Thanks, Ry
Sounds like a combination of flange and/or phase, echo, and whammy -
pull sharp and let the whammy dive into an open Eb. Might also try it
using reverse echo...just to see...
--
- Rufus
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